From Rush Hour to The Farewell, acclaimed actor Tzi Ma sits down with Steve Kmetko for an unforgettable conversation about his groundbreaking Hollywood journey, the legacy of Jackie Chan and Chris Tucker, and the evolution of Asian representation on screen. Tzi shares never-before-heard stories from behind the scenes of 24, Veep, Mulan, and the upcoming Interior Chinatown, while offering brutally honest insights on racism, stereotyping, and his role in reshaping narratives for Asian American actors. With heartfelt reflections, sharp humor, and personal wisdom, this episode is a must-watch for fans of action films, representation in media, and industry veterans making a difference. #TziMa #RushHour #JackieChan #AsianRepresentation #HollywoodInterview #StillHereHollywood #ChrisTucker #TheFarewell #Veep #InteriorChinatown #ActorInterview #BehindTheScenes #RepresentationMatters
Steve Kmetko:
Yes, I'm Still Here Hollywood and coming up on today's episode. What has Jackie Chan and Chris Tucker meant to your career?
Tzi Ma:
You know, these two boys--you know--back in the day, they were boys and it is because the fact that their chemistry was so good. There's such audience that accept--you know--them as a partner--you know--on screen, right. So, we all benefited.
Steve Kmetko:
Do you get angry when you go into a film and they might not know what they should or what would make it better? As an Asian film?
Tzi Ma:
If I have something to say, for example, like the set, I've seen more Qing Dynasty paintings on a set, on a continuous basis. For a lot of times I say, you know what? In an Asian household, you would never find this painting in an Asian household.
Steve Kmetko:
How often do you get back to Hong Kong?
Tzi Ma:
I like to get back more often than not. So right now, I not as much because, I'm not quite sure how the president of China feels about me.
Steve Kmetko:
There are faces that are ingrained in the film and television world. Legendary actors, seemingly omnipresent all over the big and small screen. They may not all have household names, but if there is such a thing, they have household faces. This is Still Here Hollywood. I'm Steve Kmetko. Join me with today's guest from Rush Hour and many more, Tzi Ma. If you'd like to be more involved with us at Still Here Hollywood, you definitely can just visit patreon.com/StillhereHollywood. You can support us for as little as $3 a month. Then you can see who our upcoming guests will be and submit questions for them. You can even tell us what stars you want us to have on as guests. You'll also get exclusive behind the scenes info picks, video and more. Again, that's patreon.com/StillHereHollywood. Tzi, thanks for stopping by, strapping by. Let's start over.
Tzi Ma:
You know what? Let me see. That might be an interesting take. Okay. Strapping by.
Steve Kmetko:
Strapping by, strapping on. First of all, what I want to know, Tzi, is how do you live in Los Angeles and not drive?
Tzi Ma:
Well, I don't really live in Los Angeles.
Steve Kmetko:
Oh, you don't?
Tzi Ma:
I mean, I do, but I spend so much time outside of Los Angeles, so I'm comfortable--you know--not to do that. I don't because this is kind of a headquarters where you go all points after that everywhere else, and pretty much literally everywhere--you know--but LA.
Steve Kmetko:
Where do you live normally on a day-to-day basis?
Tzi Ma:
At the moment, I spend most of my time in Vancouver. Yeah Canada.
Steve Kmetko:
Oh, beautiful city.
Tzi Ma:
A lovely city. And it's an exciting city. Like in, I think we had a, just have a conversation with Francesca that it is a city that's well planned. It's very healthy.
Steve Kmetko:
Right. I went up there once to do a story on how production was leaving LA and going up to Vancouver. Because so many shows were being shot up there. And all I can remember is that it was so clean. It was as though Disney ran the city. You know, their theme parks are always so clean. You were born in Hong Kong, raised in New York.
Tzi Ma:
That's correct.
Steve Kmetko:
Live in Vancouver now.
Tzi Ma:
Yes.
Steve Kmetko:
Can you compare those cities?
Tzi Ma:
Let's see--
Steve Kmetko:
For me, do pros and cons?
Tzi Ma:
Absolutely. I mean, Hong Kong is an interesting myomere’s because I left with very young age. So, today's Hong Kong is very different from the Hong Kong that I knew. Right. So, Hong Kong is absolutely a modern metropolis. Okay. New York City is an old metropolis and Vancouver is basically is a fairly new city comparing to New York and Hong Kong. I love to visit New York. Hong Kong is another city that you want to visit. And living there is, because it's so densely populated, space is so limited. So, it's a little harder. And it's Hong Kong is not that culturally aware, you know. So, I prefer to visit New York and live in Vancouver and visit Hong Kong--you know--visit LA--you know--I don't want to spend so much time in LA because the air quality's a little bit harder to take for my sinuses in my eyes.
Steve Kmetko:
I noticed that coming in this time it was. And I know that there's a wildfire out there in Ventura County or something. But I was here when they did a mass cleanup of the air, and it made a big difference in the 80s, in the early 80s. I can remember going for bike rides and my lungs hurting afterwards. Because of everything you were breathing in anyway.
Tzi Ma:
That's right. Yeah. Yeah. It's not great for that get on a treadmill.
Steve Kmetko:
Yes.
Tzi Ma:
Indoors. Good air conditioning.
Steve Kmetko:
And with something to distract you like a television.
Tzi Ma:
Yes. Yes. Yes.
Steve Kmetko:
Tzi, how did you get into acting?
Tzi Ma:
Let's see. I'm the youngest child of a family of 7 actually. But 5, surviving. And I was the youngest, so I was the entertainment because we had a family restaurant, everybody working, including me. I was the dishwasher; you know on a soapbox. Because I wasn't tall enough. Right. Child labor law didn't mean anything in our restaurant. So, everybody had to pull their weight. And since everybody worked so hard, I like to cheer them up. I would--you know--put like, maybe put a scarf--you know--around my head and then, hello--you know--or I put a cowboy hat and put like, so, and they used to have really fake 6 shooters. Right. So, I would act--you know--for the family. So, I think that was the early beginnings of it.
And then I was very fortunate in junior high school, there were two teachers that are really prominent, I feel that shaped me. You know, in acting one, it was an algebra teacher, Mr. Goodman. And one's an art teacher named Mrs. Harper. Both of them are Broadway enthusiasts. So, they would bring the class to Broadway, like Ethel Murmon--you know--Pearl Bailey. Yeah. Fascinating. You know, legends. Absolutely legends. I mean, Ethel's amazing. You know, Annie, get your gun, you know. And then so, they were so in love with that Broadway said, let's start a drama club. So, in junior high school, there was a drama club. I said--wow--this is kind of fun. And also, it takes the kind of racism off the edge off of it. Because in junior high school, that is the event of the year, the school play.
Right. So, when I first went to junior high school, had all kinds of problems. You know, people being what they all pull their eyes back--you know--saying derogative sayings and like grab the loose leaf and yank it and have paper flying everywhere and stuff like that. I said, you know what? I need to do something about that. Because I have to fight back, first of all, which drove my mother crazy. I went home one day with my shirt, all ripped with blood everywhere, and goes, my son--you know--she just freaked out. I said, you know what? I can't put her through this trauma. Let me figure something out. So, the drama club was my way out of that quote unquote, racism. Because the first play I did was Inika Chaun, you know, and I played Buffalo Bill.
Steve Kmetko:
No kidding.
Tzi Ma:
Yeah. So, I had my hair gray and I had my--you know--10-gallon hat, my cowboy boots and everything. And at first, when I first stepped on the stage, everybody laughed. The entire audience cracked up, ha ha, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, whatever it was, say, I had the loudest applause at the end because they said, man, that's Buffalo Bill. Wow. You know. And that really helped me survive junior high school times--you know—
Steve Kmetko:
Which is tough for everybody just about that.
Tzi Ma:
Of course. All the hormones were raging--you know--stuff like that. And they kind of stuck with me. I said--wow--this is great. I'm having so much fun. And all the girls I'm meeting, why not? Why not be part of the drama club? Right.
Steve Kmetko:
What has been the greatest obstacle you've faced in your career?
Tzi Ma:
Yeah. Obstacle is overrated. I always look at obstacles as some something that is a challenge, but it's, has to be overcome, right. You can give into it and say--oh my God, you know--all these stereotyping, and I got to do this. I got to do that. I said, wait a second, just a minute. You don't got to do anything. You know, you make your choice, right. So, you feel that is choice. You make that you got to do it, then that's your choice. I don't fault you for doing it. I wish you didn't. But, you know, because you'll perpetuate something that, something we probably have to fight against most of our lives--you know--into business, right. Because a lot of times it's about, it's a little easier now because of Google, I guess, because you can do research, right. Back in the day, you got to go to the library and do Micro fish, go to--you know--it's, oh my God, okay.
That's what's up. So, really in that sense there are always obstacles, you know. But rather or not, you're going to rise up to the occasion and say--you know--that's a great idea. You see this story. You say, this guy's name is Vin, which is Vietnamese. And he actually is being pursued by the tongs, which is the criminal element in Chinese. And he left from Cambodia. Who is he? So, everybody, all the writers in the room are going like, oh, yeah, we don't know. I said, you know what? I have an idea. He is ethnic Chinese, Vietnamese. Most of the boat people are ethnic Chinese, Vietnamese. So, the Han Vin, right. So, reason why they left from Cambodia, because they had to travel to Cambodia to leave to points elsewhere. And they landed in Chinatown in America. And so, since his ethnic Chinese, he was being pursued by the Chinese tong because they did not really accept him as a Chinese person, because his name is Vin, he's from Vietnam.
He said, you are from Vietnam, you know. So, I said does that make your story work a little better? Oh yeah, good idea, let's do that. So really, I mean, you have to take the opportunity--you know--there's always danger and opportunity, right. So, you listen to it and you find it, and you said--okay--let me see what I can offer. You know, as a creative contributor, you can be two kinds of actors. You can be a puppet. You can do everything. Everybody tells you—you know--do this, do that. Say this line here, go over there, do that. Okay, fine. That's all good. Right. It works. If it works for you. Great. I like to be a little bit more of a contributing side.
Steve Kmetko:
How often have you found yourself on the side of educating the writers or the producers, or?
Tzi Ma:
Back in the day, almost everyone, really, because back in the day, it was hard to do research. So, you know, what did they do right? They go to Blockbuster. They go to Blockbuster, and they rent all of these quote unquote Asian theme stories, and they throw it together, right? Because, you know, you as a writer, you have an assignment, right? Producer said, okay, we're going to do an Asian episode. I have no Asian friends. I don't know anything about the culture. I'm stuck. Right? Because we know that most of the writers, gay of America are white male, middle aged white male, period, back in the day, right? Very few women writers, very ethnic writers, forget it. They don't even exist back in the day. Right?
Steve Kmetko:
People of color.
Tzi Ma:
Of course. So, what happens is they got to go to Blockbuster. There was their resource, right? So, I understand their plight because I have a lot of writer friends. So, I said, oh my God, you know, they, they pull out their hair, you know, trying to figure out what to do. So, try to help them too. So, they don't have to go to their boss and go. Well, I came up with this, but it's really terrible.
Steve Kmetko:
Yeah. Now the series of rush hour films you made very successful. I've seen you interviewed and you called it special.
Tzi Ma:
Yes.
Steve Kmetko:
How so?
Tzi Ma:
Well, it's the first time where you have two leads of color. You have a black man and an Asian man. Usually salt and pepper. You know, you have a white guy and a black guy, right? So, you know, like the whatever those Beverly Hills cops and all of those is always that combination. That's the first time where they cast an Asian and an African American as leads in a film. So that made it historical. And, and that's why I say that's special. And the combination, it's like it became the best babysitter in the room. Because, you know, when you can't afford a babysitter, you're popping a tape of rush hour, because it's funny, it's a little girl in it, the little girl singing Mariah Carey. So, kids love it. So, I still make a lot of money from rush hour.
Steve Kmetko:
That's good.
Tzi Ma:
It's very popular.
Steve Kmetko:
Yeah. That's a good thing. What has Jackie Chan and Chris Tucker meant to your career?
Tzi Ma:
You know, these two boys, you know, back in the day, they were boys and it is because the fact that their chemistry was so good. They're such audience that accept, you know, them as a partner, you know, on screen, right? So, we all benefited, right? Especially when I'm Consul Han and Ambassador Han later, and I'm their boss. So, and then the little girl really helps. So, all of that really is a combination. And, they are so loose on set. I mean, you're talking about rush hour. One yours a great cash. You got Tom Wilkinson, and you got me, you all of these veterans. And that's, that's in some ways that's the brilliance of Brett Ratner in that sense. Because he was a new director. You know, I think he directed one film and music videos. So, his set is like a music video set. It's like and what he did was say, you know what? I'm going to support these boys from all these veteran actors. Everywhere they turn, they have a veteran playing against. So, you can only do the scene as good as your scene partner, right? You can't do the scene by yourself. So, I think in that sense, I have to give some credit to Brett.
Steve Kmetko:
You know, do you ever get angry? You seem to have a really good attitude in how you're viewing this. Do you get angry when you go into a film and they might not know what they should or what would make it better as an Asian film?
Tzi Ma:
I do but I usually try to take it to the side because there are a lot of people involved in a film set, in a TV set. I don't want to, and I've known actors that would do that. They'll just go really angry because they're so passionate about what they do, right? I said, you know what? The whole set is tense. Everybody's upset. I said, if I have something to say, for example, like the set, I've seen more Qing Dynasty paintings on a set, on a continuous basis. For a lot of times I say, you know what, in an Asian household. You would never find this painting in an Asian household. Only if you were a foreigner. Otherwise, you wouldn't be interested in a guy in a Ching dynasty costume, right? So, I would say, you know what? Hey, let's have a, let me talk to you a little bit about this.
Do you know what this is? You know, that is an emperor, right? You know, the Qing are Manchurians, right? Manchurians are Conquerors. They actually took over China. They're foreigners, you know, in the Chinese eyes. So, you would definitely never see this painting in a Chinese apartment. In present day, you might see a Van Gogh -- you know -- you might see a Picasso, and you will never see bamboo curtains. You will see all these fancy world of war -- you know -- like electric curtains and stuff. So, in that sense, you kind of make sense, right? If it makes sense, because it's their work. Their name is going to be the, I'm the production designer. I'm the set designer. So next thing you know, I say, oh, wow, dude, that is terrible, that's kind of racist, is kind of stereotype, right? So, you try to do that.
Steve Kmetko:
So, you bring a lot to the set as an actor, but you also come to a set. Do you find frequently as a teacher?
Tzi Ma:
That's an interesting question. I used to be much freer with my opinion. I don't do that as much today because it takes time. So now I need to know if you're worth it. Because it does, it just takes a lot of energy, you know? I mean, you see a, you know someone and say, okay, I'm going to, okay, well guess what? You know, we can talk about this, this, and this and that. And then you say, okay, well, that didn't happen. Didn't happen, right? So, I need to know that you have some kind of a passion. I need to know that you're sincere about what you're asking me, or you're not just saying something for the heck of it. Right? So, I'm a little more cautious and I'm gentler today. I used to be a tough. Tough love was, was where I started.
And I said, that is not a good approach. Because actors are fragile. You know, you really need to create an environment where they feel safe, right? So, back in the day, because I used to do a lot of workshops, we would say, oh, THD help us, help us. I said, okay, fine. I said, I could only do workshops because I'm too busy. I'm working. So only three weeks, or four weeks, or six-week workshop. That's it. Okay, we are done. And I used to be on top of them. Because I know the business is tough. I want them to be tough. I said, what is that? What are you doing? You know, but then I said, wait a second. I have reassessed that way of teaching. Now I approach it much gentler.
Steve Kmetko:
It's a tough business to survive in. When all is working in your favor. Do you find a lot of people try to typecast you?
Tzi Ma:
Yeah. You, you know, I mean, but Hollywood is always that way. They always got blinders on whatever works. It's what they want because it's this lot of money involved, right? I don't blame them. They could say, Hey, he's good. Dramatic man, but dramatic actor. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Let's just warn more tears, more this, more drama, more -- you know. But, you know, I could do a lot of things, right? I said, but -- you know -- for you, I understand -- you know -- I try to vary my roles. I try to find auditions or try to find things or played a different way where they think this, this is really serious. And then I'll try to find some humor in it. Try to find a light aside. Just try to find something. Because I want to be a creative participant. I want to be a creative contributor. You know? I don't want to sit around and for you to tell me what to do. You know? Let me try that. If it doesn't work, fine, it's okay. You know, you learn through the day, the years that the ego gets in the way. Forget the ego, right? Just listen, have an open ear. Most important open ear is the most important, more than the eyes. When you listen, it's a whole different world.
Steve Kmetko:
Have you ever seen a Charlie Chan film?
Tzi Ma:
I have.
Steve Kmetko:
And what do you think? Well, I hope I'm not offending you.
Tzi Ma:
No, not at all. You know, because it's a victim of circumstance. Right. You know -- they -- you know -- yellow face -- you know -- and not the, and matter of fact, there was a, there's a change, right? In the beginning, there was always this kind of the quote unquote talk doc and some Latin lover. They were not villains, you know? But it changed because the world politics changed, right? Then you be then war got involved, you know? So, then they became all villainous. And also, the Eurocentric view of what Asians are, who we are, you know? And that came from Europe--you know--all the Fu Manchu and all of those things are influencing the young country, the USA so you see the genesis, you see the change, and you should be history student. You should look at these things and why did it happen? And some people say, well -- you know -- yeah, man, I can't believe they did this. And I said, guess what? They want to be actors they wanted. There was the only opportunity they have. So, take it easy. It's okay. These changes happen. You know, change is the only constant. Constant, nothing else change. You expect change.
Steve Kmetko:
It should be easier for us to deal with change than it is.
Tzi Ma:
Well, you know, like, it's a sigh. What am I going to do? Right?
Steve Kmetko:
Right.
Tzi Ma:
Yes.
Steve Kmetko:
Asian American movies have become so mainstream. What has that journey felt like?
Tzi Ma:
It was long, let's say that first of all, the stories were a little bit, a little dry, you know. But you know what? They were new. These are new writers. They never had an opportunity to write a movie about yourself, right. So, there are a lot of growing. There are a lot of growing pains. But now you look at the stuff that is doing, like interior Chinatowns and show is going to drop in Hulu in November. Man, that show is extraordinary. And that kind of, you can see the journey from where we started of this kind of very dry, you know very standard--you know--kind of story, right. To a show like Interior China with encompasses, literally, there's something for everybody, you know? So, now you kind of go--hmm--we have arrived, really, really arrived because now the creativities boundless. Before it was very restricting. You know, you have to find things to break out, find things to make it different, find things to make it compelling, you know. So, I had to work a lot harder back in the day. So now I can relax a little bit and watch all this wonderful young talent coming up the pipeline. Now there's an opportunity for them to shine. They've always been there. It just that there were no pipeline, can pool was there? No pipeline into the system. So now there are.
Steve Kmetko:
Did you see the movie, everything everywhere, all at once?
Tzi Ma:
I have.
Steve Kmetko:
And what did you think?
Tzi Ma:
I thought it was a little bit self-indulgent, but it had met much success, obviously. Thank you. You know, I appreciate it. But you know what, it's an experiment. People try that. No, never been done before. And that genre is most important, that we have never been in that genre period, sci-fi--you know--that type of story. And hey, doesn't mean every time you come out, it's a grand slam. Okay. Custody people, some slack. And it's okay to admit it's not as good. It's okay--you know--they will grow. These writers are going to be great because they were allowed to do something. I thought they were a little too repetitive. And also, because they wanted to pay tribute to the Hong Kong martial arts cinema, right. I said, if that's your mission, then there needs to be more variation in the fights. Right now, I thought the fights were repetitive, so--you know--but everybody did the best they could. So--you know—hey--get over it. It's all good.
Steve Kmetko:
Do you feel obligated to convince them?
Tzi Ma:
Convince who?
Steve Kmetko:
Convince the filmmakers.
Tzi Ma:
No. I don't think so. I think they're wise. They're bright people. You know, this business have a lot of, lot of smart people. You know, like the guy who wrote Interior Chinatown. He was supposed to be a lawyer. He was a lawyer. What a talking about, he went to law school. He was actually a lawyer--you know--he said, wait a second, that's not my calling, man. I like to write. So, he wrote a book. He wrote a novel--you know--called Interior Chinatown. So, then he adapted that book--you know--for Hulu. And he's also the showrunner, right. So, I don't think--you know--there is, everybody have their journey. You let them; you have to let them do it. Because otherwise--you know--then you kind of you're depriving them of their experience of getting, I think that's the most important thing of cumulative experiences. That's important.
Steve Kmetko:
What's the best experience you've had since becoming an actor and working on film?
Tzi Ma:
I think the most rewarding thing for an actor today is to be able to play roles that of unique and really just unique human beings. You get a chance to play these characters that are special. If they were Japanese, they would be national living treasures. And I've had quite a few of those opportunities. And it's really heartwarming because you get a chance to meet them. And you sit down with someone who's legendary, meaning in the world stage. Like for example, the Quiet American, the character Heng is actually a composite character of two characters, right. But in history, they could have been one, because Graham Greene was a spy. So, he wrote The Quiet American as a novel. But everything in that book, those guys exist, right. So, I had a chance to meet General Thé --you know, and he was ping, triple agent, never caught, worked for the French, worked for the North, worked for the South, worked for the Americans, okay. Never caught.
Steve Kmetko:
Talented guy.
Tzi Ma:
Amazing. And a student of history, you go to his house, war to war books, all about history, you know, and a romantic that you don't expect, right. So, you meet these people and you gain insight. Now, I can add that element into that character, because he was a romantic, he almost married an American woman. He fell in love with an American woman who lived in, I think like San Jose or something, you know. He followed her to America. And finally, he realized that--you know what--country first you see now, that's a man of character. He said, yes, I could have stayed in America, be a lover to this woman that I love, but my country's falling apart. I got to go back and help. That's extraordinary. I wish there were more of them right now, today, country first--you know--without country, there's no home. Okay. So, it's always in the Chinese is Koka—you know--Ko is the country. Ka is home, country comes first. So, you have to have a country, you have to have a democracy before you can even have a home while you're willing, how much bread cost you know. Because you may not even get a bread. I may tell you if you can get a bread or not, come on. You know, weigh the difference you know.
Steve Kmetko:
We'll be back in a moment. How often do you get back to Hong Kong?
Tzi Ma:
I like to get back more often than not. So right now, I not as much because I'm not quite sure how the President of China feels about me.
Steve Kmetko:
What are some of the biggest movies and TV shows you've been in?
Tzi Ma:
Big in? How, what is the definition of Big?
Steve Kmetko:
Audience.
Tzi Ma:
Oh, let's see. Obviously 24 is huge, right. And that character character's pretty interesting. You know, because he's basically the mirror image of Jack. It's just that--you know--depends on what angle you're looking at, right. So that's a really popular show. The Farewell, surprisingly independent film that's big and successful rush hour, needless to say, very popular still, you know the Quiet American underrated. Totally. That movie almost did not even meet the world because 9/11--you know--because oh, that's anti-American. You can't show this anywhere. So, and thank Michael Caine for that. You know, he just said no. He said, I'm supposed to do another movie for you. At least you got to give it the best try. You know, you have to put it into Toronto Film Festival at least let people see it, and then we can make the decision. So, in terms of audience--you know--like for tv, I would say those are some, and hopefully Interior Challenge would top all of that, because that show is, that has that much interest for everybody, you know.
Steve Kmetko:
You're high on that, aren't you?
Tzi Ma:
Oh, my goodness’s sake. Really. It is truly a unique show. I mean, anything that I tell you would be a giveaway, right.
Steve Kmetko:
No.
Tzi Ma:
No, really?
Steve Kmetko:
No spoilers.
Tzi Ma:
Oh, yeah. I mean, but it's just one of those shows where, let's see what the best way to describe it in my terms. I mean, not necessarily what they would think it is. I think it's like lost the Upside down in The Truman Show.
Steve Kmetko:
Yeah.
Tzi Ma:
That's how I would think.
Steve Kmetko:
Wrap my head around that.
Tzi Ma:
Yeah. That's how I see it.
Steve Kmetko:
Okay. Yeah. In Rush Hour, your daughter is kidnapped. Where did you find that emotion?
Tzi Ma:
Well, I was the youngest, so I am the all-hands-on deck guy--you know--all my nieces. I tell you, I pretty much--you know--I tell my nieces, I know everything about you. I changed your diapers. I wiped you clean. You know, I've had you—you know—so, I am in touch with the, I'm the all-time babysitter. So, I'm in touch with children a lot, you know. So, I get in touch with that feeling. You know, how to nurture someone, you know how to protect them. How do you, with the pain, the loss that you, you feel when they no longer all of a sudden disappears from your life. So, you do everything in your power to get them back.
Steve Kmetko:
You know, so that's how it works.
Tzi Ma:
And then my nieces like, go, man, I say, I know everything about you. I changed your diapers. So, I'm in touch--you know--although, you know, I'm not a dad, but I am the perfect dad because I do a lot of stuff with--you know--because it, the family, there's, that's Chinese family. That's how it works, right. You know, you help out. Right. You know, it's say--okay--we got to go to the restaurant. Okay. You know, Ivy needs to change. You need to change the stuff. Okay, fine. It's like, I got to, okay, man, man, dude, that's nasty. So, that's how I'm in touch with that.
Steve Kmetko:
Can you tell me a little bit more about your history with Jackie Chan?
Tzi Ma:
Jackie Chan is funny. Jackie Chan, it's actually, he's really smart. And when we were doing rush hour one, he was worried about his son, you know, because he's always doing something. And he's in a lot of pain because he is a consummate stunt man to begin with, to in first place. He is a stunt man, first actor second, he loves stunts.
Steve Kmetko:
Really?
Tzi Ma:
Yes. He go to a set, he'll, the first thing he does, he look around the set and he goes, hmm, what can I jump off that? Can I break this? Can I go here? Can I, that's how his mind works, right. And he's quite wise--you know--he would talk about another actor that had a lot of work done, you know, and he goes.
Steve Kmetko:
You mean surgical work done?
Tzi Ma:
Yes. And he just said, what's wrong with aging? The fact that you are lucky enough to live this long. Okay. I didn't expect that from Jackie Chan. Right. So, he's very generous. It's very generous, really generous guy. You know, he is always like, because he, you know and he likes to eat well--you know--he's, and really healthy stuff. You know, his stunt guys, they come and he cook and make it in his trailer. Yeah. He's a good man like him.
Steve Kmetko:
What is he meant to Asian films in general?
Tzi Ma:
I think it, on the positive side, he's so popular. He's a Buster Keaton. Right. I mean, he is amazing though. Things that he can do, right. The confusion part of is that they confuse all the Asian actors are not Asian American actors. So, there is a difference, right. Where if you keep on hiring Asian actors, then Asian American actors don't get to work. And we bring different things to the table, right. Because they are culturally influenced in the East. Our influence is the West--you know--we grew up here, so we are much more western than Eastern, you know. So, I had to learn to be Eastern because I played so many foreigners. So, I said, you know what? I got to get better at this. So, I became a student of the east.
Steve Kmetko:
How did you learn that?
Tzi Ma:
Well, first of all, I had to credit my parents because they said in the house, no English, you have to speak Chinese. He said, because you're going to speak English outside. He said, if you don't, if I encourage you, like my nieces now, none of them speak Chinese because the parents are a little more lenient. Right. Another second gen. Right. Ah, go ahead. It's okay. Speak English. It's all right. They're no Chinese. No, the culture is like so far removed from them, right. But my parents is said, no, when you're in the house, you speak Chinese, you learn the way we do things. When you go out there, you learn the way they do things and you're going to survive in that world. You adapt that. So, I have them to think about that.
Steve Kmetko:
It sounds to me that like you've had a career, that you want a career that's you've made successful, but it sounds like so much work.
Tzi Ma:
Oh, I don't mind work.
Steve Kmetko:
See, I do. Yeah.
Tzi Ma:
Well, it's fun. It's fun to dig deeper--you know--it's definitely surface able when you do it without going deeper, it's okay. It works. Right. Much more interesting when you go deeper than there are nuances that other actors not going to think about. And yeah.
Steve Kmetko:
How often do you get back to Hong Kong?
Tzi Ma:
I like to get back more often than not. So right now, I not as much because I'm not quite sure how the president of China feels about me because there's some very wise, some person had put my picture next to his, he said he should play Xi Jinping. He looks just like him, which I disagree. But that's out there now. And I think we had some issues when we were trying to promote Milan in China. And I think I was photo what is, was it they kind of erase you? What is that called? You know what I'm talking about?
Steve Kmetko:
Yeah, I know what you're talking about.
Tzi Ma:
Photoshop.
Steve Kmetko:
Photoshop, that's, yeah.
Tzi Ma:
They photoshopped me out. But there was an interesting Hong Kong artist took a different angle to it. He would create illustrations instead of the person itself. So, he would like, create illustrations of the father in Mulan together in illustration. So, he was able to promote Mulan and Hong Kong that way. Right. So, Hong Kong was tough because--I don't know--I really don't know how, which, what they call an uncle she, how he feels about me. I hope it's in good light. Because I think I portrayed him very well. Because I think I played him in a couple of comedies, like Veep, you know and you never hear him speak English. So, I actually spoke English in the show and pretended he didn't. And he had an interpreter all the time, you know. But meanwhile, he knows exactly what they talk--you know--Julia was at all, it's funny, it is so funny to show--you know--in the meantime, he understands everything. Right. So, I thought that was doing some justice. So, we'll see. We don't know. We don't know if it's--you know--I'll just be a little more cautious.
Steve Kmetko:
And we'll be right back. Did you enjoy working on Veep?
Tzi Ma:
Oh my God, so much fun. So much fun. It's nothing like working with that group of people, you know. They're so talented, so funny. And every scene at the end of every scene, we improv. Every scene at the end of the scene, we improv. Yeah. It's a joy.
Steve Kmetko:
And do they ever use that?
Tzi Ma:
Of course. A lot of it, a lot of it they just said--yeah--we like that. We just put that in, you know.
Steve Kmetko:
Was improv part of your learning process to become an actor?
Tzi Ma:
Yeah. I came from the theater--you know--so, yes, absolutely. I mean, and back in the day, while I was--you know--a young actor in theater in New York, it's the most exciting thing ever. You get to experiment. There are all kinds of theaters. Everybody's in improvising, adapting--you know, hey--let's do ping opera in English. Let's adapt that whole story and translate it. You know, you need all these exciting writers who are up and coming and, you know, people like off the top of my head, I mean, LA Mama was a great place to expand into theater where we try everything. Right. I'm not shy. I mean I've been butt naked on stage. It's all good. Everything's fine. Nudity, everything's cool. Right. Because it was a time where there was a lot of money around, a lot of funding. National Endowment for the Arts, National Endowment for Humanity, New York State, you know has money. So, it was really, you can actually make a living doing theater.
Steve Kmetko:
Well, there's always people who pay you to take your clothes off.
Tzi Ma:
Well, I wouldn't take that as a giving but a lot of money. No, just, I don't know. I, same thing, man. You know, it's like a pot of coffee. You're all good. Okay. I'm doing it.
Steve Kmetko:
That's brave. Can you walk down the streets without being recognized?
Tzi Ma:
Probably not. You know, they, and all for different things too. It depends on where I am--you know--it's kind of weird that way, but most of the time is rush hour for sure. You know, that's probably the most common, you know. And there are people who say, oh yeah, Achill and the be, Achill and the be and say, yeah, okay. And then--you know--different things. It just 24, 24, you were 24, you know. So yeah, Kung fu, Kung fu, you know, it's like, okay.
Steve Kmetko:
Oh, assassins.
Tzi Ma:
Ooh, assassins is another one. That's a little interesting. Kind of a show, you know, and a great showrunner, you know. So, it's good stuff.
Steve Kmetko:
With all the martial arts films you've been involved with, have you ever been hurt?
Tzi Ma:
Oh, yes, of course. Yeah. I mean, not as bad as Jackie. Because I'm smart enough to have a double, you know. But you can't help it--you know--you do that kind of stuff. You know, and it took me a long time to even be involved in a martial art, to, I used to have rules for myself. I said, okay--Roy to be a bad guy, okay. Number one, the hero must be Asian or Asian American. Number two, there are no Asian American or Asian women victimized. Number three, there's a good and evil of my race in the same screen at the same time. Those are my three rules. Then I can be the baldest as you can find, you know.
Steve Kmetko:
Do they pretty much listen to you in that regard?
Tzi Ma:
No, but you know, but the thing is that you don't have to say yes. I mean, most of the time, back in the day is usually--you know--some Asian women are violated, and then a white hero comes in and save the day, right. And then they in bed together the next scene I say. I don't think so. I don't think so, you know, that's unrealistic. And I can't be part of that, right. So, the first really major bad guy, bad guy, Roy, I did was rapid fire and was Brandon Lee was the hero, Bruce Lee's son, and he was also the romantic hero. He gets the girl at the end, which almost back in the day, even today, hardly you would see an Asian male in a romantic setting. Rarely. Right. But that's also changing like five blind dates.
I just did, you know. So, you know, romcom where there were quite a few hot Asian male or involved is in romantic situation, you can find a hot Asian male, but they're not in romantic situations, right. So that was a breakthrough too, in itself, right. And Asian Australian woman wrote that. So that was the first, too. So, I love these things. I love to work with people who ready to make that mark, you know. And if I can lend my name to it and help you get to the next step, I'll be happy to do it.
Steve Kmetko:
That's generous of you.
Tzi Ma:
Oh, it's fun. It's fun, it's fun.
Steve Kmetko:
What's the one thing that changed the trajectory of your career?
Tzi Ma:
Ooh, that's a good one. That is a good one. I have to think about that. I think it started from the beginning; I think. I did my first film called Cocaine Cowboy. It's like a cult classic now.
Steve Kmetko:
Andy Warhol was in that, wasn't he?
Tzi Ma:
Andy Warhol, Jack Palance, you know. And it was about this punk rock band. It was a drug smuggler. So, they said, okay. He said, well, there's a row is the cook. And then my favorite mentor, Marco used to say, if you're going to play a cook, might well be a cook. So, I said, hmm. So, I said, okay, fine. I go to the audition, I said, listen, do me a favor. I said, he's a cook, right. He said, yes. He said, what if happens if he's the best friend? What if he's also the bodyguard? Movies all of these things. So, I did, I pulled the Bruce Lee on them. So, I jumped up and I put a hole in the ceiling. You are hired. This is a great idea.
That's a great idea. I say, so, I was the cook, I was the bodyguard, and I also the best friend. So, I mean, you kind of used that changes everything because it's like, hey, man, this guy can do this and that. You know, let's get him try to do this. Let's try to get him to do that. So, I think, it started right from the beginning--you know--try to create that kind of an attitude for myself, right. And also, I don't say yes to everybody, everything. I think that's a bad advice, I think for young actors. You know, personally.
Steve Kmetko:
You've made it a habit of not taking any roles that are demeaning.
Tzi Ma:
Yeah. I mean, I refuse roast that are not salvageable, because there are not a lot of good scripts around, you know. So, you have to be realistic. You have to look at a script and say--hmm--what can I save? How do I salvage the script? And then if I have, you know A, B, C, D, E, and I will go in and say, okay, I'm going to do it this way. So, I always do the first take, the way I do it. They may hate it, Tzi, that's bold choice, but wrong. Can you do it another way? Oh, sure. Of course I can, you know, but the first one, I want them to see it. And if it hits, it was like a boom. They said--wow--we like that. A hundred actors that came in before they did exactly the same thing.
Because except him. So, I said, cool, then I get a chance to do what I love to do is to be a creative contributor, right. So, because right from the right out of the gate, they respect you, right. So, if they don't, they don't, they--you know--I've been into the things as--oh no--we don't want to do it that way. And I say--okay, well--thank you for the opportunity, but I don't think I'm the right actor for you, you know. But hopefully next time, shake hands and say goodbye. It's okay.
Steve Kmetko:
What would you tell your younger self about Hollywood? If you could go back?
Tzi Ma:
If I could go back and I said, time out. Look in the mirror and look at your heart and say, is this what you want to do? If the answer is wishy-washy, don't do it. Don't even start. But if the answer said, man, I love this shit. I got to do this, boom, full steam ahead. Leave nothing behind just go. Just go for it.
Steve Kmetko:
Do you have the opportunity to talk to other young Asian actors, actresses, all actors now?
Tzi Ma:
All actors, and for any color, you know because I do some workshops and not necessarily all APIs, not necessarily. There are some stragglers that come in and go, can I take your class and say, yes, you can. I mean, there would be discrimination, right. If I don't do that, and I say, please come. And I feel that there is a difference in terms of teachers that don't know about you, right. And they say, oh no, that scene--you know--you just did. You know, it's like a little too much, a little too little. And I say, what's too much? And what's too little? That drives me crazy. When they say, oh, too more, too less. What does that mean? I don't know what that means. Right. So really in that sense, you know, because you have to understand the culture that you reacted, particularly if you are Japanese, you are Korean. If you're Chinese, you're Vietnamese, you're Cambodian, all of those things. You really have to be in your back pocket.
You got to know Chinese bile with their head from their neck up, Japanese bile from the waist. So, you have to know these little subtleties. You can't just go--oh--because they will tell you, say--hey--can you bow here and say, no, not really. You know, can you get on your knees? No. If he's Chinese, he will not get on his knees. You're Japanese will be on your knees all day, right. So, you really have to, you learn, you know, and really, you shouldn't be that difficult because these are your resources. These are your friends. These are your Asian American acting community, of course, you know, goes, hey, Amy, man, Amy Hill, what is that about, man? I said, how do you, how can you say Sa-tune that? Because we can't say the whoa, I get it. So now you adapt, right. So, you're much more finite, right. You don't just do generic, right. Which is uninteresting first of all. Second is--you know--kind of stereotypical.
Steve Kmetko:
What does someone like Shohei Ohtani do for the Asian American community in his capacity as a baseball player?
Tzi Ma:
Oh my God, are you kidding me?
Steve Kmetko:
No.
Tzi Ma:
This guy is like, he's a freak. He's so fucking talented. Oh my God. You know, I mean, just his presence, his skills, you know in American society, that's what we respect, that we see. So, in that sense, it's a bridge--you know--where we can bridge gaps, you know. And I hope, he's recovered from his injury.
Steve Kmetko:
Yeah. He had surgery after the war series.
Tzi Ma:
Yeah, because oh, see that. It's commitment, right. So, he committed, he said, he's always fall out, you know. And if you are looking at the finer things, then you understand this guy's got character--you know--look at the passion and the commitment that he puts into his work. And we should all do that, you know. Well, why do it then? If you don't, we're not going to be—
Steve Kmetko:
If you're not committed to it.
Tzi Ma:
Absolutely. And passionate about it. So--you know--this guy's all right. He's a—
Steve Kmetko:
I think so too.
Tzi Ma:
Yeah. He's amazing. The wow, I know the stuff that he can do, man. He's a pitcher and a Comer hitter. How do you do that? You know, you're throwing the ball this way, and you're hitting, how does that work, man? Yes. He's a special.
Steve Kmetko:
Yeah, he is.
Tzi Ma:
What another special guy.
Steve Kmetko:
Thanks, Tzi.
Tzi Ma:
My pleasure. My pleasure. I hope some young actor can get a chance to play him--you know--because they'll tell his story. I guarantee it.
Steve Kmetko:
He's got a great story.
Tzi Ma:
Yes. Absolutely.
Steve Kmetko:
And he likes his dog.
Tzi Ma:
Yeah. That's it see, you see what I mean? So, some lucky young actor down the road, man's going to get placed show your time.
Steve Kmetko:
Okay. Thank you.
Tzi Ma:
My pleasure.
Steve Kmetko:
Nice meeting you.
Tzi Ma:
My pleasure, likewise.
Steve Kmetko:
Still Here Hollywood is a production of the Still Here Network. All things technical run by Justin Zanger Lee. Theme music by Brian Shin and executive producer is Jim Lichtenstein.