Tim Matheson on Animal House, John Belushi, West Wing, Yellowstone & Meghan Markle In this unforgettable episode of Still Here Hollywood, Steve Kmetko sits down with actor-director Tim Matheson, beloved as Otter from the comedy classic Animal House. Matheson shares powerful memories of working with the late John Belushi, reflects on the wild, cocaine-fueled culture of late ‘70s Hollywood, and opens up about how Belushi’s death became a wake-up call for the industry. The Emmy-nominated actor also talks about portraying Vice President Hoynes on The West Wing, appearing in Yellowstone, and his behind-the-scenes experience directing a young Meghan Markle in the pilot episode of Suits. With personal stories involving legends like Lucille Ball, Mel Brooks, Anne Bancroft, and Ryan Reynolds, this interview is essential viewing for fans of comedy, political drama, and Hollywood nostalgia.
Steve Kmetko
Yes, I'm Still Here Hollywood, just ahead on today's episode. What about John Belushi? How did his death impact you? Were you surprised?
Tim Matheson
I can't say I was surprised. He seemed indestructible. We all knew his weaknesses. But you just felt no--you know--not it, not like that.
Steve Kmetko
How did it impact Hollywood at the time?
Tim Matheson
I think we were stupid. You know, back in the early late 70s and early 80s, cocaine was everywhere.
Steve Kmetko
Hey, you've directed Meghan Markle.
Tim Matheson
Yes. Yeah.
Steve Kmetko
And?
Tim Matheson
She was great. I mean, she was lovely. I believe she was engaged at the time to someone. And she, you know--
Steve Kmetko
Someone other than Harry. In 1978, movie theaters were packed to the gills with box office blockbusters. The top three movies were Grease, Superman, and an unlikely raunchy hit about a troublemaking fraternity. That film was National Lampoon's Animal House. Besides the other breakout stars like John Belushi, Kevin Bacon and Tom Hultz, there was one smooth talking frat boy with a twinkle in his eye who stole every scene he was in. This is Still Here Hollywood. I'm Steve Kmetko. Join me with today's guest, Otter from National Lampoon's Animal House actor, director, and now author Tim Matheson. If you'd like to be more involved with us, it's Still Here Hollywood, you definitely can. Just visit patreon.com/still here Hollywood. You can support us for as little as $3 a month. Then you can see who our upcoming guests will be and submit questions for them. You can even tell us what stars you want us to have on as guests. You'll also get exclusive behind the scenes info picks, video and more. Again, that's patreon.com/still here Hollywood. Hi Tim.
Tim Matheson
Hi Steve.
Steve Kmetko
What were you doing in today before you came in to do our little program here?
Tim Matheson
I was actually working out and actually it was the first day I backed to it working out. Too much information here. I just had my knee replaced, a half knee replaced and it's in great shape. And so, I was exercising that got on a bike and--
Steve Kmetko
Everybody's doing it.
Tim Matheson
I know. It's amazing. Because it's a computer. They take a CT scan, computer designs the implant, and then they implant it. I think, I'm not sure if the computer does it or what, or a robot does it, but it's great.
Steve Kmetko
And when you completely heal, will you be the $6 million man?
Tim Matheson
I think so. And I will set off alarms when I go into the airport.
Steve Kmetko
Oh, really? I told you. Did they give you one of those little things? My father had some kind of an implant for his heart. Right. And he used to carry a, some kind of a little card when he went through airport security.
Tim Matheson
I got to make sure I get that. Yeah.
Steve Kmetko
There's so much to talk to you about. First of all, you were on Leave It To Beaver speaking of television.
Tim Matheson
Yes. When I got that, I had, I was what I used to call the third kid through the door. I mean--you know--because there was always the kid who was the sort of co-star of the show and his good pal. And then there was the other kid and that was me. I was the third kid through the door. And I started just--you know--I had a line here and a line there. And then I got a couple of lines here and a couple of lines there. And then I came to Universal Studios and it was review television at the time, which was their TV arm at Universal and auditioned for Leave It To Beaver and got the part. And it was a recurring part. It was going to come back several episodes. And I've never felt so comfortable, and I mean, and greeted warmly as I did on that show. And because it was about the kids--you know--and the parents were lovely. Hugh Beaumont and--
Steve Kmetko
Barbara Billingsley.
Tim Matheson
Barbara Billingsley, yes. And I worked with her again later on. Thank you. And I went to a party at Jerry Mather's house, and I thought, man, I have arrived. You know, this is it. It's like going to the Playboy Mansion, you know. But it was great. And then I must say, not too long ago I saw an episode of that I had done, and it was so well directed and so cleverly directed--you know--that they had the three of us playing and walking down the street, and it was just done in one shot, probably 3 or 4 pages of dialogue. And instead of just kids walking and talking, we were playing some game, jumping on a curb, jumping off the curb into the street, jumping up in the sidewalk, walking and it was like, I just thought that was really smart directing, because we weren't acting. We were just being kids playing a game. And so that show was—it was a real learning thing, working with directors like that--you know--who knew how to not make kids just stand there and be stupid and say the lines badly, you know. So, it was great. It was a great learning experience.
Steve Kmetko
Somebody who was really good with kids, a director is Spielberg. The screen test exists where the little kid who was in ET Justin Henry?
Tim Matheson
No. Henry Thomas.
Steve Kmetko
Henry Thomas, right. Justin Henry was Kramer versus Kramer, Henry Thomas. There's the screen test exists somewhere, and you can hear Spielberg talking to him and the kid, the tears come and it's so, he was so good you worked with him before he was him. Are you surprised at all with all he's accomplished?
Tim Matheson
No, I think--you know--I worked with him in 1941, and he had just done, he was like the hottest guy in town. He had done Jaws and Close Encounters, and it was like, how could this not work? And it's not his sweet spot, I don't think comedy--you know--like that, a broad comedy. And but he was so gracious and so wonderful to me because he shared with me all of his drawings and all of the sketches for the characters. He even asked me it oddly, I had just finished doing a I'd done Animal House. It hadn't come out yet. I was broke. I got offered a Disney movie called the Apple Dumpling Gang Rides, again with Don Knots and Tim Conway, which I took.
And, you know--this is not going to do one way or the other with my career, but I have to get paid here. And Tim Conway was just so fun to work with. And he just spent all his time trying to make Don Conway, Don Knotts laugh. And he did. Yeah, Don would break up in every scene. But Steven found me in Las Vegas. I was driving back from Canna, Utah, stopped in Vegas, checked into a hotel, and I don't know how they—the next morning my phone rings and it says, we have Steven Spielberg for you. And it was like, okay.
Tim Matheson
Oh, that's fine. I don't know how in the world he found me. And then he said, yeah, I've been doing this movie. I really want you to be in it, and I have two parts, and you get your choice of which one you want to play. And it was like--wow--okay. And I chose Loomis Birkhead, which was, so all of my scenes were with Nancy. The other one was just--you know--a cluster of guys running around doing funny stuff, the main theme of the movie. But I just wanted to do something that was closer to real. And Steven was just, he was wonderful. He's would ask me for suggestions if you have any shots, do you want to tell me about it? And I suggested a shot. He said, let's do that. You know, so, he was wonderful. He was just a big kid too.
Steve Kmetko
Yeah. Still is, I think.
Tim Matheson
Yeah. I agree.
Steve Kmetko
Of all the people you've encountered, and we haven't touched on them all yet, I said, I'm going all over the place because I feel like I've got a treasure chest here in you.
Tim Matheson
I'll follow your lead.
Steve Kmetko
A human treasure chest. And I just want to dig through it. Of all the people you've worked with who made the biggest impression on you?
Tim Matheson
Lucille Ball.
Steve Kmetko
Really?
Tim Matheson
Oh, yeah. Lucy. She was the most powerful woman in Hollywood. She was the number one star on television. And no one ever—I've never heard anybody else talk about this. She was the first female executive of a studio she owned. She and Desi formed Desi Lou Productions, and then they started buying up. They made so much money, they started producing shows and buying up lots. They bought the old RKO studio lot, which became part of Paramount. They bought a studio lot on Cahuenga Boulevard. They bought the old Snick studio over there by MGM on Culver Boulevard. And those were all Desi Lou. And she was so involved in the casting of that part and so helpful to me in getting the part. And then she would make time for me during the day, and she'd invite me in.
She had a big trailer on the stage. She says, come on, well, let's talk. And I'd go in her trailer and while she'd get made up or talk, and she would give me advice about the business and about acting and but to just watch her--you know--how precise she was and just how perfect she was about the work she did, and how seriously she took it. And she also taught me another great lesson. I did a couple years after that I did, here's Lucy and I played the boyfriend of Lucy Arnaz, who was her daughter in the show. And the two of them starred in it. And we were backstage. And Lucy was great. And a lot of the Bob Hope and Gleason, a lot of those stars were great.
Because they would hire old Vaudeville friends who weren't doing well, and give them a day here a day pay there, you know. Because they'd make their enough money to make their health insurance. And so, this lady had a one-line part, it was an old pal of Lucy from Vaudeville, Gail Gordon and me. Gail Gordon was one of the stars of the show from Armas Brooks. And I are standing backstage with Lucy and Lucy, and this woman is getting ready to go out and make her entrance through a door and then go out. And the stage was out there, and we're all backstage. And Lucy goes, 20 bucks—she blows her line to Gail. I just thought--oh God--that's so mean. And I was so sensitive, and I realized, and the woman went out, nailed it, came back--you know--and gave Lucy a little--ah, yeah--there you go.
And I realized it's a acting and making movies in Hollywood. It's a full contact sport, and you got to be ready to take the hit. And I think, the biggest lesson I got from her. Because Lucy was tough--you know--she was tough. I mean, she didn't care if it was a 6-year-old who blew his line or a 60-year-old, you know and just she was, she talked like that. She could see the voice, smoker's voice and just always rehearse with your props, you know. And it was like--okay--Lucy. But I mean, she was the gold standard for me. And couldn't have been. She didn't go out of her way to be extra nice, but because it was work. You were there at work, but when you stepped off stage and backstage and she's saying--you know--how you doing? How's--you know--I married Jennifer Lee for a short time who was in yours, mine hours played her daughter. And how are you? How are you guys doing? How's it going? And so, she was stellar.
Steve Kmetko
Henry Fonda was in that film as well, right?
Tim Matheson
Yes.
Steve Kmetko
Working with the two of them together early in your career. What was that like?
Tim Matheson
Well, Steve--you know--their polar opposites. And back in the day, Lucy would go into her trailer and now day, and no actor stays on the set anymore. They go their trailer, or they--you know--back then, every actor stayed on the, you had a chair, you stayed on the set and you just stayed until you were called. And Henry was trying to quit smoking, so he was doing Needle point. So, he'd sit on the set--you know--but he was a totally different kind of actor. He wasn't trying to do Lucy; he wasn't trying to do broad comedy. He was just, he was so centered and so real. And I just remember a scene where I was--you know--reading the script. And there was a big speech he had when our first scene where he gets up and all his kids, he's going off to work.
And he's in his uniform--you know--he was in the Navy. And he had a speech at the door. And I just wondered, how is he going to do this? I mean, I was trying to figure out how would I approach that if I was playing that part? And I hadn't, didn't have a clue. And he just got up and he just stood there, and he looked at all of us, and he just told the truth. You know, he just talked to us like a dad to his kids, made a point. And it was like, it was just magnificent. It was, I said, that's a star. You know, he just took stage and held the beats and connected with all of us. And he said, going to work, boom. And off he went. And but what agent. I mean--you know--what a fine gentleman.
And basically, I think one time we were talking about acting, and he said--well--you just, you walk in the room, you hit your mark, you look him in the eye, and you tell him the truth. And that's acting--you know--that's what you do. And then I'd seen--you know--all his old John Ford movies, like Young Mr. Lincoln, and all the different things that he did. And once upon a time in the West for Sergio Leone, where he was the villain, I mean, it was like, oh my God. I mean, he was a superb actor. Superb.
Steve Kmetko
Let's shift decades for a moment. What about John Belushi?
Tim Matheson
Oh, John. John believes she was—it was a dream come true. I mean, and because it was right at the beginning of his career, right. Saturday night life had been on for one year, I think when we shot Animal House. And the night we met Judy, his wife, and he showed up, and all the Deltas, all of the, our fraternity were there a week early. And John showed up and we didn't know what to expect. We thought--oh my God--this is going to be some star from NBC Hits show, and SNL. And I mean, he was like--you know--he was so funny. And he was huge and couldn't have been nicer, couldn't go farther out of his way to make everybody right away go, I'm not that guy. That's going to be a prick. You know, he was funny.
He didn't have to be funny to try to be funny. He was so gracious, because there's a thing about improv actors, which is you lead—you never say no. You know, if you said, boy, that wall's high. I go, yeah. How are we going to get over? You know, I agree. And go, and the next step, how, you know. And so, he's like that in life, John. And it was, he accepted us. He was and I had never done a comedy before, and I was like, nervous as hell. And he was very supportive and generous and gracious to me. And it was before I think the demons took hold, you know. I mean, within a year he had the number one TV show. He was in the number one hit movie in Hollywood. And he had the number one house full of Briefcase full of Blues, I think it was the number one record album.
And it was like, it's just so much. He was on tour with the Blues brothers, and then he was making the Blues brothers. And it just--you know--and everybody wanted to party with him. Because he was that character--you know--they thought he was that character. And it seduced him. It was quite different by the time we got to 1941, about 3 years later and you could see the sort of the ravages that had taken on him. And--you know--but I was one of his more stable friends in Los Angeles. And so, we'd see each other occasionally off stage when we weren't shooting. And but--oh God--he could be funny. I mean, he was so funny. I'd stand by the camera and just watch him in a scene.
I wasn't in, like--you know--when he was in the commissary eating his, stealing food and eating sandwiches and stuff. And it was like, oh my God. And he just, he improvised that. I mean, it was just, and they planted certain things for him, but it was all improv. And that's how I got into that movie, was I had come to a point in my career, I was just playing this nice guy kind of boring characters and TV episodes like Adam 12 or this or that. And so, I took improv classes, and that allowed me the freedom to let go and just to go with a flow with my partners in the scene. And that got me that part.
Steve Kmetko
How did his death impact you? Were you surprised?
Tim Matheson
I can't say I was surprised. He seemed indestructible. He was so strong and so physically strong and powerful and funny. And we all knew his weaknesses, but you just felt no--you know--not like that. And I was often Texas. I was playing Shakespeare, I was doing Petruchio and Taming of The Shrew, and somebody came backstage after the show and told me it happened. And it was like, it was such, it was so sad, you know. It was so, and it's such a loss. And because a lot of people don't know really who he was now, you know. And he was just, it was such a special spirit, you know. John Landis, the director of Animal House, said he's the cookie monster and Harpo Marx together--you know--that it's that. And that's who he is. He had hardly had any dialogue in the movie. You know, it was all physical comedy. And it was a treasure. It was a treasure and a pleasure to know him and work with him. And we just lost his wife, Judy. And she was lovely too. Because she did everything, she could to keep him on the straight and narrow and, but to stay with him--you know--if and to be there for him.
Steve Kmetko
How did it impact Hollywood at the time?
Tim Matheson
I think we were stupid. You know, back in the early late 70s and early 80s, cocaine was everywhere. And it was like, I remember first trying, and it was like, this isn't bad for you. This, oh my God. Oh my God, this isn't bad for you. Oh my God. How could this not be bad for you?
Steve Kmetko
I feel so great.
Tim Matheson
I know, I know. My heart's going. Like, but I think it was the beginning of the end because it was like John's death was that sort of the Harbing or of that this is not okay. You know, this one is, it's not like--okay--you're smoking a joint or something and you're going to fall asleep, or you're going to watch--you know--you're going to eat a bunch of food or something. It's not—this is a dangerous drug. This is not a good thing. And it led him down a path towards worse. And I think that was the first time everybody realized, like, when you see your friends dropping at 33, like we lost Doug Kenny or prior to that, who was the creator of Caddy Shack and an Animal house and a National Lampoon. And he died at 33. Perhaps a victim of the same kind of excess, you know.
Steve Kmetko
It just seems though, in Hollywood, you go through these cycles--you know--Marilyn Monroe.
Tim Matheson
Yeah.
Steve Kmetko
We'll be back for more in a moment. Hey, you've directed Meghan Markle.
Tim Matheson
Yes.
Steve Kmetko
And?
Tim Matheson
She was great. I mean, she was lovely. I believe she was engaged at the time to someone. And she, you know--
Steve Kmetko
Someone other than Harry--hey--you directed Meghan Markle.
Tim Matheson
Yes.
Steve Kmetko
In the first episode of our first season of Suits.
Tim Matheson
Yes. Yeah.
Steve Kmetko
And?
Tim Matheson
She was great. I mean, she was lovely. I believe she was engaged at the time to someone. And she, you know--
Steve Kmetko
Someone other than Harry.
Tim Matheson
Other than Harry. Somebody else. And I loved doing suits. It was so much fun. I mean, that was a great cast. Patrick Adams, was I had known him as a photographer. I think Mike, I don’t know if you introduced me to Patrick. But I'd met him where he came and did a photo shoot with me and took pictures of me. And then I, he started--you know and he was an actor. He was hustling. And he was so lovely in that show. And they just had a rhythm and a thing, and a pace to, and they understood the material. And the material was really well written. And I had a great time doing that show. And I loved working, and she was lovely. You know, she was also very bright and a good actor. And would listen to the director and if I had a note or anything and, you know, took it, try it. And if it worked, great. It didn't. Okay. Don't dump it. Go on, go with what you went with.
Steve Kmetko
So, tell me, what made you decide to write the book first of all?
Tim Matheson
You know the real story was I started to write a, a book. Because I was a, I'm a big Hollywood buff, and I grew up reading books. And there was, one of my favorites was by Algae and Harmit called The Making of the Wizard of Oz. And she just went through all the archives at MGM and from every department. And she had all the notes and everything script was in there, and the casting process and wardrobe and hair and makeup and special effects, everything. And then the shooting of it. And so, I wanted to do that about the making of Animal House, because it was a core group of people on that movie, as I stepped away from it, was Ivan Reitman and John Landis. And Doug Kenny was the creator of the National Lampoon and Wrote Animal House and a Caddy Shock before his premature death. And then, and Harold Ramis and all of them sort of changed the shape of comedy in movies. So, I started to write that book, and the publisher said--well--that's great, but we'd loved if you would talk about your career because you worked for Lucille Ball and Bob Hope and Jackie Gleason, and all these different people.
Steve Kmetko
Name dropper.
Tim Matheson
Yeah. And so, it was expanded. And so it covers animal houses, but it covers also sort of the journey through from, gosh--you know--I think I started acting in 1961, so just as anecdotal stories of 4, and there's this segment in it called Hollywood Bootcamp, where I talk about the things they don't teach you in acting school, and they don't teach you in bootcamp in movie--you know--film school and the sort of, the rough and tumble of it all. And so, I just wanted to try and pave the way for people who are interested in acting, writing, directing and just what this business is really like, sort of when you get down on the grid iron.
Steve Kmetko
It's funny with Ivan's background, his son Jason--
Tim Matheson
Yes.
Steve Kmetko
--Is now doing, or just finished directing the Saturday Night Live film. That came out, what, a week ago or so?
Tim Matheson
Have you seen it?
Steve Kmetko
No, I'm dying to see it.
Tim Matheson
I am dying to see. He's a wonderful, wonderful director.
Steve Kmetko
Yes, he is. You know, and he's a nice guy too. I interviewed him once.
Tim Matheson
Yeah. Oh, God, yes. I've met him a few times. He's great. And really, and Ivan was too--you know--I mean, Ivan had set up Animal House to, so he could direct it. And because he'd made Cannibal girls a movie--you know--Canada. And he thought--okay--and he developed this script. And he went through a lot of the problems of getting it developed. And he thought--oh--this would be my break. And the studios just said, no, no, no, not you. No, no. And then they got John Landis and Ivan, once the movie started to gain traction at the studio before it came out, they realized they had a hit on their hands. They loved it. John Landis got a deal. Matt Simmons of the Lampoon got a deal. Harold Ramon, Ivan Wrightman got a, I mean, and Doug Kenny got a deal, Wrightman, they just said--well--if you ever come up with something, let's give us a call. So, he said, producer gets no respect, so you've got to direct. So, he developed meatballs, that script for Bill Murray to do. And the day Animal House opened, he couldn't come to the premier because he was shooting meatballs. The first day. He was waiting for Bill Murray, hopefully, to show up. And he wasn't sure that he was. And he did.
Steve Kmetko
You have such a rich history in Hollywood. I'm glad that you've decided to--you know--do this book on the making of animal House. And I read The Making of The Wizard of Oz several times. That's my favorite movie of all time.
Tim Matheson
Oh my God. And
Steve Kmetko
She had so many great stories in there.
Tim Matheson
It was wonderful.
Steve Kmetko
Yeah. It was about how originally in the books by El Frank Baum, the slippers were really Silver. And Louis B. Mayer said--you know--if we're shooting this in Technicolor, we're going to have red shoes.
Tim Matheson
Well, and there were three directors on that movie. And Victor Fleming was the same director who did both The Wizard of Oz and Gone with the Wind in the same year. And no one even knows of him now. I mean, and Victor Fleming used to sign the script on his name was a sig directed by, and then his name would appear on the screen. That's how big he was. The biggest star. But--yeah--it was a wonderful movie.
Steve Kmetko
Yeah, it is. And Richard Thorpe was one of the directors and he had her looking all blonde and Dorothy.
Tim Matheson
Oh, right.
Steve Kmetko
Long blonde hair and very made up. Who was it, what director was it George K?
Tim Matheson
Or who came in it? K who came in came in, lose the blonde hair.
Steve Kmetko
Yes. Get the makeup off. Yeah.
Tim Matheson
That right.
Steve Kmetko
Yeah. And he was also on gone With the Wind for a while.
Tim Matheson
He was fired from Gone with the Wind. Because Gable and he didn't get along, I guess.
Steve Kmetko
Right. Didn't like the fact that he was gay. Anyway, be that as it may homophobia has been around forever. So, tell me, why did you decide, first of all, to write the book? Well, and I love the title. It sound makes you sound like you're a politician.
Tim Matheson
It's a line from Animal House that my character has, glad to meet you. Hi, Eric Stratton, rush Chairman. Glad to meet you welcoming the pledges to the fraternity party. But, you know, as a kid, what the happened for me was in my parents split up and I was 5 or 6, and it was a shock. It was just shattered my world. And I used to go and hide out in the movies and spend all day Saturday and Sunday watching movies. And back in the day when you could just stay and watch the movies over and over and over. And there were double bills and then Saturday matinees for kids and stuff. And it just was, it always made me feel safe there, because things always worked out. You know, I mean, in the Saturday serials, they'd get the char the characters into a situation from which there was no escape.
And then they'd get them out. And to me that was what life was about. And so, I sought relief from my--you know--home, broken home in theater. I got into some little theater, and then my first job on tv, I was 12 in a show called Window on Main Street with Robert Young the year after he did Father Knows Best. And I just walked on that set, and it was like, I found my family. I felt so at home, and I felt so wonderful there and it was like, I still feel that when I'm on a set, I have never--you know--it was just, people were so kind and gracious and wonderful to me. And I got a chance to step outside myself and the pain I was going through as a kid and be somebody else--you know--which is a treat, you know. And so, I'm still blessed and fortunate to be and grateful to still be doing it.
Steve Kmetko
Who pointed you in the direction of this career? I mean, at 5 or 6, somebody has to point you in the direction.
Tim Matheson
You know what, it was just by accident. I mean, my first vivid memory of watching a performance and at the Lorena Theater in, not far from here in.
Steve Kmetko
She, which is now a bookstore.
Tim Matheson
Right. Of course, was watching Charles Lawton in Witness for the Prosecution a Billy Wilder film, and with Marlena Dietrich and Tyrone Power, and Elsa Lanchester. And watching Charles Lawton, I was always fascinated watching anybody who could do something extremely well. A bricklayer--you know--a carpenter. Anybody who could just knew boom, boom, boom, you know, whatever they did, if they did it really well. And I watched him, and I just was mesmerized. He was so precise and so good, and having so much fun with it. And I just, I was enamored with that. And I was a, so I really wanted to learn what he did and what he was doing. And I think that's when I started reading biographies and stuff. And so that was the first thing I saw. I mean, I don't know that I really wanted to be an actor, but I did once. I did it in class a couple of times and I enjoyed it. I got a laugh--you know--it's kind of fun.
Steve Kmetko
It's nice getting a laugh. Isn't it funny though, when you think back or the experience you had and the movies you watched early on today before coming over here, I had an old Alfred Hitchcock presents. I was watching, and who was in this one little TV show? It was Walter Matthau, Harry Morgan. Robert Vaughn. And they're all in this show. Joanne Moore, was that her name?
Tim Matheson
Yeah.
Steve Kmetko
Who was married to, who's Tatum O'Neal's mother and Rh O'Neill's wife at one time. Just, it was incredible. It was a half hour black and white show. And you just don't think of that kind of talent coming together, but it does.
Tim Matheson
Oh, yeah. It was amazing. Everybody did TV in those days, you know, and it was, especially on the Hitchcock shows. I mean, my God, those were--
Steve Kmetko
Right.
Tim Matheson
The Golden Age.
Steve Kmetko
Yeah. When is your book coming out? It's in November, right?
Tim Matheson
Yes. November 12th, glad to meet you. My 7 decades in the Hollywood trenches. And it's not quite 7, 6, and, but I'd say I round it up. But it'll be out November 12th and it was so much fun.
Steve Kmetko
What am I going to learn from it?
Tim Matheson
Well.
Steve Kmetko
I have a lot to learn, so.
Tim Matheson
I'm not so sure. I think you; you've seen it seen a lot. It's sort of a primer of the mistakes I made. I try to own up to the stupidity and because out of ignorance and youthfulness and arrogance and I cop to it and a bad first marriage. And I don't, and really why I started studying, I was doing a show at Universal, and acting just sort of came natural for me. I never really didn't understand it, but I usually, the emotion would generally be there for me. And that I had a scene where I was supposed to break down and cry and be just distraught that I had been responsible for the death of this young man. And I was lying over his body and I couldn't do it. I mean, it was just, and I faked it and it made it even worse. I mean--you know--one of those. And it was like, I went home on my drive home. I was so ashamed and so angry, and I just said, if I'm either going to quit doing this or I'm going to learn how to do this.
Steve Kmetko
Learn to do it better. Yeah.
Tim Matheson
And fortunately, I was, during my period of being under contract to Universal, I was one of the last contract actors at Universal. And I was there 4 years. And so, I got paid every week, and I just I took dance, ballet, voice, Shakespeare, method acting, Stanislavski o Strasberg, and I took anything and everything I could do. And I did a lot of the classics. And they were all instrumental in sort of gaining an approach to the work. So, and I think all that Stanislavsky ever—the great teacher of acting was, you went around and asked all the famous actors in the Russian theater, how do you do it? What your technique? And then he combined that into his book, and that was an act of prepares and technique is there for when you can't organically do something when it's like, I don't know.
So, you dig into it and you use your technique to help you get through it. And but those are the things I think that hopefully that are instrumental in the book on how to, and it's a business. Get the right agent, make sure you have somebody taking care of you that cares about you. And that's a good agent. And so, in addition to all the acting or the directing or the writing or whatever the creative thing that's drives you—you also have to be responsible for having somebody really good handle your career and get you where you want to go. And if they're not doing that, and you have, you always have to keep us, I was always taking lunches and going to lunch with different agents and managers and meeting them and saying--oh--maybe that if this doesn't, that would help. And then, and I talk about people that hurt me and because they're not all doing it for the best reasons sometimes--you know--people.
Steve Kmetko
People, you don't have to tell me.
Tim Matheson
You know, I mean, it's a full contact sport. But if you're hip to that going in and that going in is, that's sort of the core of the book is about that. Just beware and know how you're going to get hit. You know, now you're down. You got to get up now what? You know, your plan is good. And what did they say it was? Mike Tyson said--you know--your plan for the fight is good until you get knocked down. And now you got to get up and revise the plan.
Steve Kmetko
And bite somebody's ear.
Tim Matheson
Yes. Get a face tattoo. But it's true. You know, you're going to get knocked on your butt. And how do you get bad reviews. You get, what are you going to do to continue on and turn it around.
Steve Kmetko
The thing I probably, my first exposure to you as an actor was Johnny Quest. I love Johnny Quest. It was such a great cartoon and kind of an adult cartoon for kids. And I was in an age where it was very popular. How did you ever get that role, the voice of Johnny?
Tim Matheson
You know, it was one of those things. I went in, I mean, I knew what Hanna, Barber was. I mean, because all my favorite shows were done by Joe Hanna and Joe Barber and Bill Hanna. And Hanna and Darrel. H And, and so I had an, and I had a commercial agent that sent me out on voiceovers. So, it was a voice, this was a voiceover audition. It was one of 10 auditions I might have had that week. My mother drove me. I was 15. I went in, Joe Barber was there. He came out, met me in the lobby, took me around, showed me the whole layout, how they had the animators down. They were drawn--you know--the Flintstones and the Jetsons and rough and ready and all the different shows they did.
And showed me the recording studio. And he showed me the drawings that they had for Johnny Quest, that they were--you know--they were based on, I think Doug Wiley was the artist who created them. And I was like--wow--this cool is great. I mean, so, I did the audition. I'd never really done much voice acting and--you know--so, I think I probably was too big. And then he just brought it down. He said, just be real. Just be--you know--because there's a fine edge there between being just monotone or just real, real, or cartoon real, or Flintstones--you know--real. And so, I did the audition. He was very patient, and that was that. And I thought, oh, okay. You know, it was just, isn’t another audition.
And then like three months later, I'd forgotten about it. And they just said--oh, yeah--that show's you're going to do the show that cartoon show. I thought--wow--okay. You know, that was great. And then I got to, that was an adventure because I got to work with so many great actors who were all came up doing radio--you know--Dos Butler right. Don Messick, Alan Reed, June Foray, Mel Blank. You know, he ran Warner Brothers studio on his own. He was Bugs Bunny and Pig, and he was everything. And they were some of the best actors I think I've ever worked with, because they could embody, they could, Mel would come in and create a dog's voice for one episode that had a personality and it just felt so real.
I just like, how do you do that? I mean, what is that? I mean, I had trouble just being Johnny--you know--I was, and I had this little kind of tiny voice. I sounded like a--you know--pubescent boy. And but Joe was great. He was couldn't have been nicer to me. I, he, after Johnny wasn't renewed, he hired me to be in Young Sinbad, another series, and Samson Jr., Young Samson, I think it Sinbad Jr. Young s Samson and Face Ghost. And so, and in Young Sampson, I think he allowed me to write two episodes. So, he was always very positive and very encouraging. And, I was fortunate enough to be around people like that. And I was always looking for a mentor or a guidance--you know--somebody to help me in that way.
And he was great. He let me, so I did two—I wrote two scripts, and I just felt like I was part of that. And I'd go around the studio at lunchtime and just watch these guys and--you know--draw their cells. And back then they threw the cells away because they were fire hazard. And I have one left. Joe gave me a beautiful animated cell. I collect them too. And but it, that was my first taste of being what caught a star. I mean, it was like the network was like, made a fuss and sent me out to promote it, you know. And yeah, it was, but it, nobody knew it was me; you know what I mean? Because it was a cartoon.
Steve Kmetko
And Mil Blank has one of the great tombstones in Hollywood. It says, that's all folks.
Tim Matheson
Oh my God.
Steve Kmetko
That's really. Great.
Tim Matheson
Oh, I didn't know that.
Steve Kmetko
That's wonderful. We'll be back in a moment. Hey, you played the VP on West Wing?
Tim Matheson
Yes, it was an honor. It was a pleasure. And it was one of the treasures of my life to share that experience, you know. Brad Whiteford used to joke to me, he said--you know--the Vice president is a heartbeat away from running the country. And you're a heartbeat away from being a regular in this show.
Steve Kmetko
Hey, you played the VP on West Wing?
Tim Matheson
Yes. John Hoynes. Yes.
Steve Kmetko
What insight has that given you into our political climate? Any?
Tim Matheson
Well, I mean, I became a student of politics and Doris Kearns Goodwin, who's a wonderful writer. And so that was the first book that I got on that set was they gave me her book about LBJ, because really the guy I played was sort of like LBJ. He was the guy that should have been president, except this other guy comes in and takes my job. And there were those feelings. And it was the best writing I've ever had. Aaron Sorkin--you know--I mean, he would outdo himself each week, and one of the most superlative casts I've ever worked with--you know--I mean, and they just, it just got better and better and better. And I was recurring. I only did like 6, 7 shows a season--you know--but I was always so happy to be there. But I was on my toes when I came in because you did not change one word of Aaron's script on a show, on a TV show. Generally, you have one script supervisor who corrects your, you know, oh, no, you said the instead of Anne. And I said, oh, okay. And on his show, there were two script supervisors, and I got a note from one that said--oh--it's not a period, it is a semicolon.
And I went--oh--okay. That's how much detail Aaron Sorkin Gabe--you know--because he's from the theater. And he deserved it and earned it. It was, and he was right. You don't want a full stop. You want to keep going, you know. And so, because there was a rhythm and a pace to it, and a lot of writers think that they can write that good, and some can--you know--but I don't think I've ever met anybody as good and as consistently talented as Aaron Sorkin.
Steve Kmetko
And he's won several Emmys, I believe, for that show, didn't he? Oh, time and time again.
Tim Matheson
Time and time again. And nominated for Oscars--you know--now he's writing and directing and yeah--the sky's the limit with him.
Steve Kmetko
You were nominated for that show, weren't you?
Tim Matheson
Yeah, I was nominated twice and got beat by Charles Dutton twice. Well, for two other shows he did. But it was an honor, it was a pleasure. And it was one of the treasures of my life to share that experience, you know. Brad Whiteford used to joke to me. He said, the vice president is a heartbeat away from running the country, and you're a heartbeat away from being a regular in this show.
Steve Kmetko
Well, thanks. And tell me one other thing you bought with a friend or a partner? The magazine, national Lampoon. When it was on Fallen on Hard Times. Almost bankrupted. What was that like?
Tim Matheson
It was hell, I mean, I couldn't wait to, I mean, we had, we were very idealistic about it. My partner Dan Gornick and we wanted to raise $5 million, bring the magazine out to Los Angeles, get a core group of writers, not unlike they do Saturday Night Live, and then use them to write the magazine and then to spin off TV shows and make movies. And we had a hard time getting the $5 million. And then finally the magazine was in such trouble that we had to make a deal. And we took a deal from a guy that wasn't really that most ethical person, perhaps, you know, and he didn't really care about the magazine, he just wanted it for his own purposes. So, it sorts of, it got, it went down from there, and it was a heartbreak that we couldn't pull off what we wanted to.
And, but, you know, it was also at a time where I began to realize magazines were having a hard time. And as we know now, there are fewer and fewer magazines and books and people just don't read that they read online now. So, you know, that was prior to that kind of transition could being able to be made. But it was a heartbreak because I was so deeply involved in it, you know. And I would go to the office every day and we'd try and we made a deal here. We make a deal there. And this guy we partnered with would blow up the deal to renegotiate the terms of our deal, you know. So, it was just this, I got to tell you, it was like working with the mob or something. The people were just not nice people. The business people would cut your throat just to cut your throat, just because they could not, because they want gained anything. So, I was so pleased to go back to Hollywood where I knew what I was getting into--you know--with people, you know, and they were more reputable, I think, than the business world was just, was much more rough and tumble than I imagined it to be.
Steve Kmetko
How do you feel about getting older? I'll go first. I hate it.
Tim Matheson
Well, I think the best--well--it's, Clint Eastwood said it best. I think he said, don't let the old man in. He just said, he wakes up every day. And he just says, you know, I'm just, don't let the old man in, just keep going. And I find that true. Just--you know--if the knee gives out, replace the knee and then I try and stay as physical and healthy as possible. And, and thankfully my wife Elizabeth is so lovely makes insists that I eat fairly well. And so, I just and I think you got to laugh. You just got to laugh and enjoy it as much as possible. And I mean, what other choice do we have? You know?
Steve Kmetko
It's pushing up daisies, I suppose.
Tim Matheson
Yeah. As long as you're on the right side of the grass, I think we're having a good time.
Steve Kmetko
Yeah, I suppose. Yuko starred in Van Wilder with Ryan Reynolds. He's now become this businessman.
Tim Matheson
Yeah. He's huge.
Steve Kmetko
In addition to being a heartthrob and making a lot of money.
Tim Matheson
He's so smart. When I met him, he was doing, what, two guys a girl in a pizza, or there was that show he did, and this was his first shot at being carrying a movie. And he was so studious about comedy. He wanted to hear all about Fletch, he wanted to hear about Animal House. He asked me so many questions about comedy, and he was just, you could just, he was a student and he was so good on camera. I mean, he was just so, he was such a good improviser and such a good, and he was so funny. He knew where the jokes were and couldn't have been more gracious. And I just saw Deadpool and Wolverine. He's fabulous. And it's one of those things that Belushi had it, Chevy does it, Chevy Chase and John Candy and some of the SCTV people and Saturday Night Live people, they go big.
But if a bad actor goes big, it's just corny and ham hammy and it's horrible. But it takes a great actor to go big like that. And Ryan can do it and pull it off, and he's got a great mind for business, you know. I mean, it's amazing. He really, he's a brand and he and his wife seem to handle it very, very well. And that's the transition now I think that movie stars can make. But he also seems like a nice guy--you know--I mean, I haven't seen him in a while, but he's always joking around with about Hugh Jackman and he seems to be doing it all for the right reasons.
Steve Kmetko
I conducted an interview with him I forget the name of the movie now. I'm at that stage of aging. Betty White was there, Sandra Bullock was there, and Ryan Reynolds. And you ask a question and then let them go.
Tim Matheson
Oh my God.
Steve Kmetko
Because they were so funny together and they're just playing off each other.
Tim Matheson
Oh, that was the movie that went up to Alaska, wasn't it? Or something. It was a romcom and--
Steve Kmetko
I was in a soundstage interviewing.
Tim Matheson
Yes. But I mean, it was, yeah, I mean, and Sonder Bullocks, I mean, yeah, but he can hold his own with everyone. I mean, and he just, he gets it. And, and is--
Steve Kmetko
Earned it. Two other legends I'd like to ask you about husband and wife, Mel Brooks and Bancroft. You did to be or not to be with them.
Tim Matheson
Yes.
Steve Kmetko
Well, I would imagine that was a lot of fun.
Tim Matheson
Yes, it was. What a treasure.
Steve Kmetko
Isn't that the one where they did sweet Georgia Brown in Polish? It was very funny.
Tim Matheson
Yes. And oh my God, it's--you know--Mel is very intense and funny all the time and demanding. And Anne was the loveliest dearest most committed actor. I'll never forget a scene where I'm an underground, it was in Poland, and I'm an underground Polish agent pretending to be a Nazi. And so, I'm undercover and getting information from the Nazis and getting, trying to say Poland or something. And I'm in love with Anne. And I think we were having an affair. And so anyway, I'm in her place. I'd been in England, and I came back and she, I'm in bed and Mel thinks it's her in bed, and he gets in and starts snuggling me.
And so, I had a snuggle scene with Mel Brooks in bed. And then my other favorite scene was, was there was, I think it was the next morning where we, I wake up and, and Mel's in the middle, and Ann and I are on each side, and it was one of those scenes we just did in one take. And it's probably two pages long. And I say something, she says something, I say something, Mel goes, what? And she, it's back and forth. It was like tennis at Wimbledon, and it was just, you know, they pulled me up. I mean, it was, but it was like, it was just so much fun to play with them, you know, to play off of them and have them play off of me. And it was a treat. And the greatest thing I saw Mel do, and the most generous thing was at the rap party, he thanked.
He got up and he was making a speech, and he was, he wanted to thank each and every one of the crew. And he mentioned no notes. He mentioned each and every member of the crew by name and job, and thank them, and then made a joke about them. And I thinking--oh God--here it comes. Now he's starting with the cast and he's working his way up into the cast and Jose Ferrer. Oh, okay. And Charles Darn. Oh, and Tim Matheson. Oh my gosh. And Tim Mathers. Well, I mean, he's so handsome. He's such a handsome man. I mean, he's a very good actor. But I mean, he's so handsome. Tim, and I don't, I mean, how do I just look at you? I mean, really, I kept waiting for it and waiting for it. And he says, and he didn't say it quite as nicely as I'm going to say it, but he says, thank you for not sleeping with my wife.
And the place just went to peace. I mean, but he was, that's Mel. I mean, and Anne was this Italian from Jersey and, or the Bronx or Jersey. And she was, as she could give, as good as she got, you know, she could stand up to Mel. And evidently some guy was hitting on her at a party when they first got married. And he says, what Ann bankrupt? The you, the Tony winner, the Oscar winner. I mean, what are you doing with Mel Brooks? And she said, Mel—Mel, he wants to know what I'm doing with you. And she points between his legs. He says, show him Mel. I mean, she just couldn't, wouldn't miss a beat. She was just as tough and funny as he was. And but adorable and just couldn't have been lovelier.
Steve Kmetko
Same could be said of you, Tim. I've really enjoyed this. Thanks for sitting down with us.
Tim Matheson
Oh, Steve, this has been so much fun. Thank you very much.
Steve Kmetko
It's been fun for me too. I hope they sit me next to you if we ever had dinner together.
Tim Matheson
Yes, yes.
Steve Kmetko
And we keep going.
Tim Matheson
At the Emmy's, hopefully sometimes.
Steve Kmetko
Oh yeah. That'd be nice. There we go. Thank you.
Tim Matheson
Thank you.
Steve Kmetko
Still here. Hollywood is a production of the Still Here Network. All things technical run by Justin Zangerle. Theme music by Brian Sanyshyn and executive producer is Jim Lichtenstein.