Mike Farrell joins Still Here Hollywood to talk about his unforgettable role as BJ Hunnicutt on MASH*, one of the most beloved television shows of all time. From the moment he landed the role to the emotional final episode that still holds the record for most-watched scripted television broadcast, Farrell shares what it was really like behind the scenes. He opens up about his close bond with Alan Alda, the collaborative culture that made the show so special, and the powerful themes that made MASH* more than just a comedy. Farrell also reflects on his life beyond Hollywood, including the personal experiences that shaped his activism and worldview. This is a conversation about legacy, purpose, and what it means to do work that truly matters. 00:00 Intro 00:50 Landing MASH* 04:30 Getting the role 08:30 First day on set 10:00 The MASH* finale legacy 11:00 Creative process on the show 12:15 Why he doesn’t watch it now 14:30 Wayne Rogers story 29:00 Alan Alda and on-set chemistry 33:00 Life-changing personal experience 38:00 War and comedy balance 39:30 Challenging the writers 46:30 The controversial BJ storyline 49:00 Favorite episode 52:00 Final goodbye and male friendship 53:30 Ending the series 57:00 Final episode moment 1:03:00 What brings him joy #mash, #mikefarrell, #alanalda, #tvhistory, #stillherehollywood, #hollywoodstories
Mike Farrell joins Still Here Hollywood to talk about his unforgettable role as BJ Hunnicutt on MASH*, one of the most beloved television shows of all time.
From the moment he landed the role to the emotional final episode that still holds the record for most-watched scripted television broadcast, Farrell shares what it was really like behind the scenes.
He opens up about his close bond with Alan Alda, the collaborative culture that made the show so special, and the powerful themes that made MASH* more than just a comedy.
Farrell also reflects on his life beyond Hollywood, including the personal experiences that shaped his activism and worldview.
This is a conversation about legacy, purpose, and what it means to do work that truly matters.
00:00 Intro
00:50 Landing MASH*
04:30 Getting the role
08:30 First day on set
10:00 The MASH* finale legacy
11:00 Creative process on the show
12:15 Why he doesn’t watch it now
14:30 Wayne Rogers story
29:00 Alan Alda and on-set chemistry
33:00 Life-changing personal experience
38:00 War and comedy balance
39:30 Challenging the writers
46:30 The controversial BJ storyline
49:00 Favorite episode
52:00 Final goodbye and male friendship
53:30 Ending the series
57:00 Final episode moment
1:03:00 What brings him joy
Steve Kmetko
Yes, I'm still here Hollywood. Coming up on today's episode, he stepped into one of the most beloved shows in television history, and didn't just fill impossible shoes. He made the role entirely his own off screen. He became just as known for speaking out, producing meaningful work, and never staying quiet when it mattered. This is still here Hollywood. I'm Steve kametko. Join me with today's guest from Mash actor, Mike Farrell. Hello, Mike, Hi. Welcome to still here Hollywood. Thank you very nice of you to stop by. It's nice of you to invite me. Oh, please like for so many people, you were a part of my television habit. Mash, tell me about the moment you found out you were joining mash, what went through your mind you remember? Oh, yeah,
Mike Farrell
actually, there's a story that leads up to that if you don't mind?
Steve Kmetko
No, I don't mind at all. I
Mike Farrell
was under contract at Universal Studio after doing a show there with Tony Quinn, and that show failed, and I was still under contract, and they were trying to find something for me to do. And a friend called me and said, Why don't we have dinner? And I said, Sure, sure. And we I got to his place, and I went up and rang the doorbell, and he came to the door, and I said, let's go. And he said, Well, I can't, can't leave yet. I said, What? I've got to watch my show. I said, Okay, so we went in, and it was mash the show I had not really, had no understanding about, and I was really impressed with what I saw. You know, it was in my mind, is still a picture of Gary Berg off radar in trying to make sense out of the world when he's what, 18 or 19 years old, and blood is spurting and bombs are falling. And it was, it was really quite wonderful. So I was duly impressed, and I went, we went to dinner, went back to the studio, and not long after that, a guy, producer there called me, and he said, I'd like you to if you would read a script, because I have a series I'd like you to do. And I said, Sure, read the script. And I read the script, and it was going to insult him. It was one of those three jokes a day, a page, you know, sitcom kind of things. I just said, Thank you. No, I appreciate it, but I'm not interested. And he said, You're turning down the lead in a television series. And I said, I guess so. Yeah. He said, why? And I didn't want to say, well, your show is stupid. But I did say, it's, it's not about anything. And he said, What do you mean? I said, you know, the show mash, I said, it's about something, and that's, that's what I would love to do and actually cut and go back Burt Metcalf, who was a when I was at Universal, was a casting director there, and one day he came up, he said, Hey, Mike, I'm leaving. I just wanted to say how I go by. I'm going over to 20th. I'm going to be involved with a couple of shows over there. And one of them was the King and I, I think, and the other was Manish, and I said, Oh, you know, good fortune. Happy. It's good for you. And maybe a year later, this is probably second year of the show, third year of the show, my agent called, and he said there is a possibility that Wayne Rogers may be leaving mash, and they want to know if you would be interested in coming over and having a conversation. There's no commitment, just a conversation. I said, would I? Can I I'm under contract here at University. She said, nothing in your contract. Said you can't have a meeting. So I went and I met gene and Larry and Bert, who was then an associate producer, and I remembered being just as nervous as a cat, you know, just scared stiff. And, I mean, here's something I talk about, wanting to be part of something that was something
Steve Kmetko
was that the reason you were nervous because
Mike Farrell
you wanted, oh so badly, yes, oh my God. And I said to them, I'll never forget the meeting. They were so sweet and very kind, because they were meeting a lot of people. I'm sure. And I finally apologized to them and said, Look, I've been around a while. I've done two television series, I've done a soap opera, I've been I can and Bert said, we know, you know you're an actor. I said, I'm just as nervous as I can be because I so admire this show. So forgive me. And they were, you know, generous and sweet and and said, Okay, you know, thanks for the time, goodbye. And I said, Okay, bye. And it was, I don't know how long, much, much, long afterward, but it was a while, and I got a call. My agent called me, and he said, they want to know if you would come and do a screen test, not not a to see if you can act, they know you can act, but a test with Alan to see what the chemistry would be like. And I said again, can I, you know, I'm under he said, Yes, you can, you can do it. So I said, Okay, I'll be there. And I showed up just as nervous as I was the first time. And they couldn't have been nicer. Gene was directing it. Alan was just warm and charming and sweet and and we, we did this scene. And I know that I knew there were two other actors at least testing, doing the same test. And, and I left, I remember driving off the lot, saying to myself, it's a comedy. You might have thought about being funny. And that afternoon, I got a call. Said, You got it. And I screamed aloud and ran down to my car. Was at my mother's house, who lived in West Hollywood at the time I drove raced up to sunset into my agent's office and ran in screaming and gave him a big hug, and got a phone call from Alan saying, Would you be available to have dinner time? And I said, Yeah, and we had just a terrific time. He talked about the show and his hopes for it, and his dreams and his intentions, and about the hopes for this character and what it could be, what it could mean after Trapper left, and I thought, Oh, my God, I've died and gone to heaven. And the following Monday, I reported the word to the set, and I what the one thing I thought was, you know, mashes thought of as being a kind of family they're very a group that really cares about each other, and they're very connected. And I thought, Oh, am I going to be the stepchild, you know, who forced out one of their brethren? I don't know what's going to but God, I walked on the set, and the first person that came up stuck out his hand said, welcome Mike, happy to have you here. It was Gary Berghof, and then Loretta and Bill and Jamie and Alan. You know, Alan and I had spoken, but it was, it was a dream to be part of a show like that, and then it became, for me, an eight year dream. It was, it was just a fabulous experience. Did you feel chemistry?
Steve Kmetko
Because there's no denying there was chemistry on that show. Oh boy, between everybody. Yeah, it really was a dream to sit and watch it.
Mike Farrell
Oh, that's nice, thanks,
Steve Kmetko
because everybody meshed so well, yeah. And what's also interesting is you, you came on and replaced Wayne. Wayne, a number of characters left that show, yeah, Stevenson, and then
Mike Farrell
Larry Linville. No, Larry left. But later, Larry stayed on for five, four or five years after I but still, the show
Steve Kmetko
kept going. Did?
Mike Farrell
Thriving? Did? Yeah, remarkable.
Steve Kmetko
And when it went off the air. That episode, I believe, was, at the time, maybe still today, the most watched episode of any series television. It is the record it still holds, still holds the record. And that was, what, 84 that it went on, 8383 Yeah,
Mike Farrell
it was, it was, I have to say, it was. Well, very different from any experience I'd had prior to that point, certainly, but even subsequently, the first day, the one day I just said, where everybody shook my hand and they were just sweet and wonderful and kind, and we sat down around the table to read the script. Well, that was something I hadn't had a lot of experience with most of the time you walk in, they say, Okay, you're standing there, and here's when you're saying and you're pointing to him. And read the script, which we did. And then so gene was the director. Gene started, and Gene said, Okay, page one, and we just started reading. And went right through the script, and at the end of it, there was applause. The writers were all there, and the some of the producing team and stuff, and they were very kind of nice. I guess they did that every time. Well, I know they did that every time. And then Gene said, Okay, page one. And I thought, you was I asleep, didn't we just do that? And he said, Oh, Mike. He said, here's where we go through the script, page by page to see if you the actors, have any thoughts, any ideas, any suggestions. And I thought I died and gone to heaven.
Steve Kmetko
It was a collaborative process,
Mike Farrell
man, really, you want to hear from us? And they did, and they did. I mean, people suggested, well, you know, this scene might work better if, and how about if Bill did this line instead. It was remarkable. And it never stopped being that it became, for me, kind of a creative community. They wanted our input if we thought a scene wouldn't work for this reason or for that reason, if we were doing something that the character that happened a couple of times was have a problem with we know how to hear about it. I mean, it was just, I can't think of a better experience to work working as an actor, and ultimately, I was a writer and a director for some of the times again, because they encouraged it.
Steve Kmetko
Do you ever watch it today?
Mike Farrell
No, you know if I'm going by, I don't watch a lot of television, but if I was and was going by, I would stop because it's a little hard, is it? Yeah, to see David and to see Harry, who I loved dearly, you will find Forgive me as we talk about the show, I will get teary because the experience was so profound for me and I still, I remain in love with the show and with people and with the experience. So yes, it's fun to see things and say, I remember that gag and but I don't sit. Make a point of sitting down and watching it from top to bottom.
Steve Kmetko
Don't tamper with those memories. How aware were you of the shadow that Wayne Rogers was leaving when you came on board.
Mike Farrell
I was fearful, as I said, walking in, that I was going to be resented by the cast. None of that. There was never a whisper of that. Other than that Wayne was somebody who'd been there and was gone. You know, trapper, this character who I guess, left an indelible mark, certainly wasn't there anymore, and I was the I was busy being. BJ, so, but I will tell you a nice story I didn't know Wayne. And, you know, in this town, you get involved in things, and you go, there was an event, and I showed up, and I was I came in, it was already started. Whatever was happening. It was somebody making a speech about something, and right down in the aisle ahead of me was Wayne Rogers standing in the aisle talking to somebody. And so I just sauntered on down, and I stood there next just just out of his line of sight when he was talking to this fellow. And then he turned and he saw me, and he said, he said, hey. He said, I'm getting real tired of people thinking I'm you. I said I got the same problem. And he said, I got a story for you. He said I ran into Elliot Gould one day, and Ellie had done the movie. Movie, right playing Trapper John. And Elliot said, are you doing me? Are you doing the other guy? And Wayne said, I'm doing you. And Elliot said, Ah, I like me better. And I laughed, and he laughed, and then he said, I got to tell you, I like you better. That that's the kind of generosity you don't hear from actors who are competing, excuse me, arguably competing, but that's the kind of emotional connection that we all made in that show and and you just don't lose that.
Steve Kmetko
Is that why you're still a little emotional about it?
Mike Farrell
Oh, god, yeah, no, I dearly loved, loved the people who are gone and love the people who are still with us. Alan and I are very close remaining so after many years, yeah, it's you don't often get the opportunity to do work that is meaningful, that feels good, that is a challenge, and at the same time, is a labor of love. I've been fortunately involved in a few of them, but mash was, it doesn't get any better than that.
Steve Kmetko
Back with more in a moment, if you'd like to be more involved with us at still here Hollywood, you definitely can just visit patreon.com/still here Hollywood. You can support us for as little as $3 a month. You can get our episodes a day before they post anywhere else. You can see what guests will be coming up and submit questions for them. You can even tell us what stars you want us to have on as guests. You'll see what goes on before and after the episode, plus exclusive behind the scenes, info, pics, video and more. Again, that's patreon.com/still, here Hollywood. You know, I used to live I can't remember his name right now. It's driving me nuts. But the character who played Winchester, like the gentleman, Ogden Steyer, that's it. David steers, he would say sometimes he I used to live near him, and I was in my gelsens Once in Silver Lake, and all of a sudden I heard this voice behind me. There's no denying, no, it's him indeed. And I turned around and he said he recognized me. And he said, Yes, it's me. Well, that's good to know the entire cast. Seriously, just each and every one of you was ideally cast. It's not often that you find you know, maybe the Wizard of Oz has the ideal actors in each role, but mash did too. Do people still come up to you and talk to you about mash?
Mike Farrell
Do they all the time? Mail comes in all the time. Still, I've got a pile of mail. I'm I'm I'm tardy in responding to but what I will tell you is that when Alan and I both said and to Larry at times, that it's harder and harder for us to make fun of major Winchester, not major winch of Larry's character, because he's he he's crazy, and it's hard to make fun of a crazy person. And Larry found it the same. He just said, I can't finally play this character any longer, and I have to go. And his contract ran out. And he said, I'm going. And I remember Bert coming up to us, and he said, I have in mind an actor that is going to be everything Frank burns, wasn't he is going to be as good a surgeon as you two are, instead of the hack that burns played, and he's going to be a challenge to you in every respect. And it was David, and God bless him. He was that. He was just wonderful. He was just a fabulous addition to the show, I thought, and another person, he just came became part of us immediately.
Steve Kmetko
Hey, I'd like to ask you, I told you earlier I interviewed your wife, yes, some years ago now, Shelley Fabray, who was Mary on the dime. Reed Show, and famously saying, Johnny angel, How did you two meet?
Mike Farrell
We had, you know, in the business, you sort of bump into each other. We were both working at Universal at different times, and we, I'd say hello, and she'd say hello, and that was it, pretty much. But I tend to get involved in things political and social justice things. And in 1980 80, I was in El Salvador going through refugee camps and arguing with people who were crazy military militarists. And I had also agreed to go to San Francisco to appear at a CBS affiliates dinner. You remember those right? And so I came home from El Salvador and went straight to San Francisco, and I was just blitzed from having had this experience, and walked into this room full of actors talking to each other about acting and movies and television, and I didn't know if I was going to or go blind. And I looked across the room, and there was this face I recognized, and I walked over to her, and I said, Excuse me, I just like you to know that every time I see you, I feel a little I feel really good, and I feel a little calmer than than I had been prior to that. And she said, Mike, that's very sweet. Very nice of you. And because her name is f A, B, and mine is F, A, R, and they took they did everything alphabetically when they introduced us all. So we stood in line together and were introduced together. And I said, Is there somebody in particular in the here you'd like to meet? And she said, Oh, there are two people I'd like. I'd really like to meet, Walter Walter Cronkite and another newsman whose name I can't remember, but I said, Oh, gee, good. I hope you know. And then she was assigned to a table, and I was assigned to a different table. Off we went. And at the end of the evening, we were all, everybody was saying, Oh, good, nice to see you, whatever. And here she came, walking. So I said, Hi, Hi. Did you get to see Mr. Cronkite, no, she said, he got up and left, and I wasn't able to meet him, but I did meet the other fellow. I forgive me for not remembering his name, and I so I was very impressed with getting to meet him. And so we walked out talking, and we're in San Francisco at the top of the hill, and as we came out the door, a cable car came up the hill and stopped. And I said, Would you like to take a cable car ride? And she said, Oh, I can't. I'm involved with and I said, understood. And she turned away, and then she turned back, and she said, Sure. Why not? And we rode down to the Fisherman's Wharf, I guess, and we walked along in the coast, and we and I just spilled my guts about this experience I just had in Central America. And she was very patient and very sweet and very supportive. And then we ended up walking back to the hotel. Next morning, we were assigned a car together to go to the airport to be flown back to Los Angeles. And I said, she said, you know, because I was going to be speaking about this event that I or this experience I just had, I said, If you and your fellow would like to come, I'd be happy to have you there, because she had expressed interest in it. And she said, Okay, I'm sorry. We're tied up. I told her it was day or two later. And I said, but if you ever had to do it again, you know, let me know. So it was probably a month, two months, or maybe even three months later, I was asked to do another presentation about El Salvador, and I called and left a message on her machine. I said, If you and your fellow would like to come, we're going to do it at such and such a place and time and things. And I got a call back, and she left a message for me, saying, Is it okay if I bring my sister? And I called her back and said, Yeah, sure, I'd be happy to have you come and meet your sister. Her, and she and her sister came, and afterward, we went out for a cup of coffee or whatever. And I said, because on the plane down, she had said something about a problem she was having with the writers on one day at a time, the show she was doing then. So it's part of the conversation sitting I said, Do you ever get that problem resolved that I was gonna say about with her writers? And she said, Oh, we're not seeing each other anymore, as she recalls it, she was messing with a fake fingernail. And when she said that, when I asked that question, and she said, gave the answer, she said She flicked her fingernail and went up in the air, she said, and I said, Oh, well, that's nice. So that was the that was the beginning of now, 42 years of marriage. 42 Yeah, that's
Steve Kmetko
a long time, especially in Hollywood. Yeah, I guess. Did you ever meet Nanette?
Mike Farrell
Her aunt? Oh, god yes. We were married in Nan's backyard, in her garden.
Steve Kmetko
It's quite a it's quite a family. It is, you get down to it. She was Nanette, of course, was a star at MGM, singing and dancing. Yeah. One of my favorite movies is the one she made with Fred Astaire, Oscar Levant and I can't and she did the wonderful song, triplets. Oh yes, yes, do everything. Oh like
Mike Farrell
yes, sorry she No, it's okay. She was quite wonderful Nan, and a character, the like of which will never be recreated. She we were just talking about her last night because I was showing Shelley a picture of the friend of mine had sent of Albert Einstein. And Shelley said, Oh, Nan. Nan knew him. Nanette got around. She knew everybody. And she said, Oh yeah, I have a picture of Nan and Einstein together with their arms around each other. I said, God, okay,
Steve Kmetko
I've seen pictures of him with Marilyn Monroe. He did. He got around too.
Mike Farrell
Yes, he did. Oh my.
Steve Kmetko
Well, that's wonderful. Did the two of you ever commiserate about working on half hour sitcoms? Although I hardly I hard. I have a hard time thinking of mash as a sitcom.
Mike Farrell
It is hard. Yeah?
Steve Kmetko
People have trouble because it had such a moral Yeah, we, we were comfortable,
Mike Farrell
more comfortable calling it a
Steve Kmetko
dramedy, a dramedy that's that's good, yeah, no.
Mike Farrell
I mean, Nan and I talked about a lot of things, but, you know, she was just always on. She was, she was one of those show business people who just never left, never let it be. She was a singer and she was a dancer, and when she moved, it was dramatic and it was quite wonderful. She was, she was 100% Nanette febre.
Steve Kmetko
And what about Shelley? Did the two of you ever commiserate around your work schedules?
Mike Farrell
Oh, well, commiserate. And she worked a lot after, well, number of shows, but she, you know, she did the show with Bonnie, who was one of her best friends, Bonnie Franklin, one day at a time, she worked on a number of shows, but she began to feel that, you know, I'm not sure that's what I want to do. And then coach happened. So she was on coach for nine years, I think, wow. And I was, you know, I'd go sit in the audience whenever we because it was one of those shows that not a fortunate another three joke a page show. It was a little more classy show than that. And I used to sit in the audience every Friday night, and when they taped, and I loved it,
Steve Kmetko
and clap a little bit louder. Oh, yeah. You, as I mentioned earlier, you and Alan, had one of the great on screen friendships. What made that chemistry work?
Mike Farrell
Alan, he was open, you know, because it could. I'm a hugger, you know, but if he'd been not open, not willingness, not willing, not not to Al is probably the most intelligent person I've ever met, and he's always interested and interesting, because he's interested in whatever is happening, and he's, you know, he's creative. He's a writer. He's a wonderful actor. John Wayne, for many years, was the Good Housekeeping magazine's Man of the Year, and. And one year we were doing this show, they made Alan, the man here, and I came into the set. I used to do tricks on him all the time, played play jokes on him. And I came into the set and got down on my knee, and I said, Sir, may I, may I have the pleasure of your company. You are now the Good Housekeeping Seal of Approval, Prince of lightness, God. He says today that I used to tie his boots together. And it's true, I did. I used to lay laces on his boots together, but I had he eats one time. He decided he was gonna, because you on this on the set, you know, you move around a lot. You go to your office, you go to your the commissary, you go to wherever. And he's got a bicycle. He said, I'm not going to be schlepping around anymore, I'm going to be on a bicycle. So I got one of the crew members to put it on a hook and haul it up to the roof of the of the sound stage where we were, and he came in. He said, I've lost my bike. Where's my bike? And I said, Gee, I don't know. Can't imagine what might have happened to he said, you son of a, get it done. We just We had fun.
Steve Kmetko
Mike, where did your social conscience come from?
Mike Farrell
I got into a marriage early, much too early and too young, 24 I think I was married, and the marriage didn't last three years, and she was a lovely lady, but she was a teacher, and I was an actor, and we were trying to make things work, and it didn't, but I was and I was really wrecked emotionally, when suddenly this, you know, I was supposed to be, I was a good Catholic boy, supposed to be grown up and get married and be steady citizen and do all that stuff, and it just wasn't happening, and I was in emotionally, in terrible shape, and friend of mine advised me to go to a place that he had been associated with, which was essentially a halfway house. People off the streets, people a lot of jails, people in hospitals, people in wherever who wanted to get straight drug addicts and alcoholics and people with just other issues. And he said, This is a kind of a place where you would have it would help you. So I didn't know what the hell I was getting into, but I went to this place and met these men who ran it. It's called the Manhattan Project. They said it was at least as impacting as the atom bomb. So they and the house, the place. I called it the house. We called it the house. The house was on Manhattan place in Los Angeles, and it was there where we did group therapies and we did various kinds of projects. I came to this place not knowing what the hell I was getting into. And I got to the office before I get you get to be admitted into the house. And they said, so what do you want? And I said, my marriage back. I want my wife back, and they say, Well, what we've learned in our experience over the years with all people with various issues is that all people really want are three things, love, attention and respect. What do you want? I want my wife back, and I want, I want to get things, and I had to get work and I moved, and they said, Yeah, yeah, yeah, I understand that. But what we've learned over the years is that all any human being wants at base is love, attention and respect. What do you want? I don't know how many times we went back and forth like this, until I finally got it. I thought, oh, okay, I get what they want me to say, but so what do you want? I said, I want love and I want to touch. And I started to weep, and I was on my feet and said. Only these two men were holding me. And I think about it today, and I realize that it was the first time in my life I was ever held by a man. My father was not a not a hugger, and I was bereft at the point, but they said, Okay, you're part of us now. And I was there for a year working with these guys, working with men and women drug addicts and alcoholics and people out of jail and people off the streets and just the worst kind of, what I would have thought, worst kind of trash you could ever imagine in your society. And they were just wonderful, wonderful people, and needing, needy people, and working with them, I went into prisons for the first time because we bought the program to the prisons to say to these guys who were going to get out, you don't have to go back to the old stuff, you know. You don't have to go back to the mean streets. You can come to a program, and it can change your life. And that started me in into, I guess, social justice work, and it graduated from here to there, to local to national to international. And it continues to this day.
Steve Kmetko
Is that where you learn to be a hugger?
Mike Farrell
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm a great believer, great believer in hugging.
Steve Kmetko
We'll be right back. Mash. I'm going back Sure, balanced comedy and war in a way that feels almost impossible. Did it feel risky when you were doing it?
Mike Farrell
I was into Marines after high school, and I didn't do service. I mean, I didn't do I wouldn't end combat, but I served in Okinawa and in Japan, and I saw kids who had no life suddenly find a life, and some who couldn't figure out how to make things happen and fall apart. I saw some pretty tough stuff, but it was a growing experience for me, but nothing quite like the house. The house was a place that changed me completely, I have to say, from the shy kid I was, to the shy man I am now. I Yeah, but I've lost your question. I'm sorry.
Steve Kmetko
No, that's okay. The the combination of war and comedy doesn't seem almost seems impossible. Sometimes. Did it ever feel risky when you were doing it?
Mike Farrell
No, because we always did it with a sense of the rightness of what we were doing, the wanting to heal, wanting to save, wanting to honor the character and the career and the essence of the human beings, whether they were Korean or American, whether they were North Korean enemy or our own soldiers, no. And the writers of the show man, they did a lot of wonderful work research about what the mash reality was, and came up with story ideas that we did about inventing utensils that are now used regularly. They invented them in the mash circumstance because they knew they needed something that would do this thing. And somebody said, let's try this. But beyond that, we there were times they took a reality situation where there was a an officer who was a real gung ho jerk who was sending his kids up a hill to be slaughtered, and sending them back, and sending them back. And we they depicted that in our show, and Alan and I, or Hawkeye and BJ, decided that we'd get the officer who was responsible for that, and when he came in to see his. Men, we would give him a Mickey, and we would say he's got an appendicitis, and we would operate on him, and we'd take him out of action. And they took that from a real situation in Korea where the hash people did that. And so the guys wrote a wonderful script, and we read it, and we got ready to put it on its feet, and when our page one second time goes through, gene or Bert asked if any of us had a problem. And I said, Yeah, I do. And they said, What's that? I said, BJ wouldn't do this. And he said, What do you mean? I said, BJ is a medical doctor who knows that you do not violate a healthy body. He would never operate on somebody who didn't need an operation. And they say, oh, but it happened. And Alan said, Hawkeye would. And I said, I get it. I have no problem with it. I'm just saying BJ wouldn't. And we had this long discussion about the philosophy of whether or not and all that stuff. And finally, Bert said, You know what? We've got a better story here than we had on the page. Let's do that. We do that. We set it up. BJ, and Hawkeye talk about this guy has to be taken off. Hawkeye decides he's going to do it. BJ says, You can't do that. You can't do that. And Hawkeye said, I'm gonna and he did. And he, BJ, sat in the swamp, and he, Hawkeye walks back in. And I said, How was it? And he said, it was just ripe as a, you know, Plum. It looked great, perfectly healthy. He'll be fine. And then radar said, choppers more wounded were coming in, and we looked at each other and said, didn't do a damn bit of good, right? So you know, that's an example, I think, of all of the things that I've been talking about. They listened, they cared, they honored the the characters that we had created, and they wanted to do important things about what happens in war, some of it not so good.
Steve Kmetko
Are you of the opinion that the writers make the show?
Mike Farrell
Oh, without the writers, you would have a lot of actors. Add ad libbing, and we've seen the worst of that in our world. Yeah, no, without the writers, you're dead in the water. We fortunately had great writers, and some of our cast wrote too. So, I mean, we had Alan. God. Alan is the Alan is a as I said, smartest man I've ever known and capable of almost anything. He's just a remarkable human being.
Steve Kmetko
I interviewed him once. He had done the movie betsy's wedding, I think it was called, and I can remember thinking after the interview was over that this is a pretty special person.
Mike Farrell
Oh, yeah, no, question, no question. And you know, he not that he's above it all. He's not that he appears in any way to think He's superior. He just is, yeah, yeah.
Steve Kmetko
And then you see him in something like I watched the other day again, and the band played on about the AIDS epidemic, in which he played a French or he played a physician. He wasn't French, I don't believe, but he was involved with the French, and he was kind of a jerk.
Mike Farrell
He can did it well, yeah, yeah.
Steve Kmetko
Was there any episode that you felt crossed a line in a good way that hadn't been done before on television?
Mike Farrell
You know, some of the things Alan did the sort of freaky, you know, fantasy stuff, but there was one that created an issue for me as a character, and that was evolved out of a very short scene that Larry gilbart wrote, and he said it was About the Blythe Danner, the actress, played a character who the history tells us he and she and Alan had had a love affair when they were in medical school or something together, very, very hot and heavy, and then they had their part and went their separate ways. Well, turns out she's committed. To come into the mash as a nurse for a short period of time, everybody looks at each other, and we know what's going to happen, and pretty soon, we don't see much of Hawkeye in the swamp. And there's a scene with Alan and Alan and me, and in radar's office. I think it was still radar's office instead of klinger's office at that point. And he said, I haven't been around lately. And I said, Yeah, I've been crying into my pillow. And he said, Have you missed me? I said, Oh, it's been just awful. He said, Are you do you disapprove? And I said, not my place to disapprove. And he said, Have you ever been unfaithful? I said, Never. And he said, Have you never been tempted? I said, tempted is a different question. He said, aha, you got you and I said, No, I didn't say I had been I said it was a different question. So it was a funny show, a funny scene, and we ended it, and Larry, who had written it, was out there, and I went out afterward. And everybody said, Oh, the great scene. You guys had fun and blah, blah, blah. And I said, Larry, I don't think it's human for BJ to have never been tempted. And Larry said, Huh? I said, that's, you know, something for us to think about. And a year later, Gene came up to me and said, you remember that scene you shot and you had a conversation with Larry about and I said, Which scene? And he said, Never been tempted. I said, aha. And he said, How would you feel if BJ fell off the fidelity wagon? And I said, Oh, man, it depends on how you resolve it. And I said, okay, and we went on and did the show with where BJ is called by nurse Kelly to go help one of the nurses, who's just gotten a dear Jane, and he goes into the tent, and she's weeping, and she's this, and he's that, and I held her, and she's just, you know, holding me, and then talking and crying and looking up at me, and then we kiss, and that's it. So nobody knows you know exactly how that resolved, but one can make certain assumptions. And the next scene is Hawkeye comes into the tent, into the swamp, and he says, What are you doing? And I'm busily screaming. I said, I'm writing a note to peg about what? About what happened? Are you crazy? He just stormed at me. Tore it out of my hands and took it out and tore it up and threw it away. You can't do that. I said, What do you mean? I can't do that. I love peg. I'm bereft at having done what I've done, and I've got to tell her, we love each other. We know it. And he said, not in a letter from Korea, if you're going to tell her, wait till you get home and then deal with it, but not in a letter from Korea. And I said, Ah, okay. So you know, it's that kind of stuff that they came up with that I just thought, How lucky am I to be in this situation, with these guys, with these people writing these wonderful, wonderful shows characters.
Steve Kmetko
Was there one episode in particular that stuck out for you all those years,
Mike Farrell
I think the best show we ever did was one that was called the the interview. It would that just the idea was, the premise is that a newsman, Allah Edward R Murrow, Cleek Roberts was a local newsman, comes into the unit with his camera team, and he wants to talk, tell the people back home about what the boys are doing. And at the after we read No, before we read the script, when they told us what the idea was, Gene came to each of us and he said, I'd like you to write down your answers to some questions in character that will then be part of an interview that you'll be doing. So in effect, we wrote our own script for that, for that show, and. And it was, again, it was such a compliment to the actors to be asked to know their characters well enough to respond like that. And we did. And I think, I think it was the interview was one of the one of the best shows we ever did, because of that, there was a kind of personal connection to it, that that came through. And some great, God, great lines, Bill Christopher came up with a wonderful line about about how being a holy man, and he said about when you see, when it's cold and you see a surgeon cut in to a body, and you see the steam rise out of the body, and you see the surgeon warm his hands on the steam. You know, you think, Oh, my God. So there were things, you know, little magical moments that happened all the time on that show just things that I'll never forget. Do you ever wish you could
Steve Kmetko
go back and do it over? There's never been any kind of
Mike Farrell
a reunion show as there? Yeah, well, that we did a couple of, actually did a couple of, really reunions, but in mufti, you know ourselves, rather than the characters, where we talked about the show and talked about all those things and answered some questions that some people might have had. But no, there was never a mash in character mash reunion, and I don't know if you could have pulled it off, but the wanting on the part of the audience is very real. I must say, I'm continually moved by the mail I get from people talking about the show, and what it meant to them is there one
Steve Kmetko
thing in particular that they bring up
Mike Farrell
a great deal is the love between Hawkeye and BJ, two Men loving each other and being willing to express it, you know, being to share it, that that hug at the end of the final episode and the brief conversation, I hope, I hope, will you get to we'll get to see each other again, kind of thing. I hear about that a lot, and I understand it, because it reaffirms for people that it's okay for men to love each other, it's okay for people to express their love for each other. It doesn't necessarily mean that there's something sexual in it. It's, it's it's human, and it's, I think it's the common humanity of it that was so consistent throughout all the years we did the show. It was what kind of reaffirmed it for me. Reaffirms it for me every day.
Steve Kmetko
We'll be back in a moment as I recall, the show actually ran longer than the Korean
Mike Farrell
War did. Indeed, there's a there's a great story, sort of. It's not relevant to that, exactly. But at one point I said to Alan, we were in year 10. And I said, How long do you expect this to go? And he said, You know, I always thought 10 years, and here we are. And I said, hmm. And then I guess we used to all huddle in a little thing that the crew had built for us a little hut on the set, and we started talking about it. Do you think it's time? You know, what we don't want is for the network, some jerk at the network to say, oh, ho hum, I'm tired of the show, and we'll pull the plug. Wouldn't it be great if we could have an end of the war, end of the movie, movie, end of the series episode, and talked and talked and talked and talked and talked. And finally, we talked ourselves into it, ourselves into it. And we told the network and the studio that we did we wanted to end it, and we wanted we'll go to see the 11th season, and if you like, we could do a number of episodes in the 11th season and then, but we wanted an episode that ended the war so that we could say to the audience goodbye and thank you. Kind of and I remember a guy from the network or from the studio came down and met us in our hut, and he said, You can't do. Do that. You can't, you can't have an end of the war episode. I said, why? And he said, Do you remember the fugitive? And I said, Yeah, you know David Janssen chasing the one armed man. And when David decided he wanted the show to end, he found the one armed man and proved his innocence. Blah, blah, blah, blah, well, it killed the show in syndication. And we kind of looked at each other, and I turned to the guy and I said, it might surprise you to know that most people are aware of the fact that the Korean War ended. He just got up and left, and they came back with this idea. Okay, if you'll do 11 episodes, I think it was, and a movie. We'll do a movie separate from the last episode, that will be the ending episode, but it'll be a two hour movie, and we talked about it, and thought that's a pretty good idea. And what I didn't know was, then they could bury that movie, and they could keep running the show, the episodes and episodes and episodes forever in syndication. But what they didn't expect was the movie was the biggest hit that television has ever seen, television, scripted television. So it's now aired, I guess, a couple of times, two or three times, but it's it was, it was perfect. Alan again. Alan wrote it. Bert directed it, and it was fabulous. Got us up, gave us each an opportunity to say thank you and goodbye. Can't ask for more than that.
Steve Kmetko
What was, I cannot remember what was written on the ground when the helicopter was taking off. Goodbye. Goodbye. Is that what it said? The theme was,
Mike Farrell
of the script was Alan kept saying goodbye to BJ, and BJ wouldn't say goodbye. And finally, BJ had written out goodbye,
Steve Kmetko
held it out in on the rocks, yeah. After mash, did you ever worry about being typecast as BJ?
Mike Farrell
I didn't worry about it. I got number of offers to be BJ or a BJ kind of character, and I said, No, thank you. And then I got an offer to do show called Providence, where I played a veterinarian, father of three kids, one a doctor, and it was, I remember my agent sent me the script, and I said, this is too good. It's not going to go in the air. And she said, Well, they think it is. And I said, this is too good, I don't think so. And she called and said they want to make a deal if you're willing to play this character. And I said, okay, and did. And it was providence. Was on the air for five years. Should have been on for more. It was a really nice little show, but it was not. BJ, he was, he was an entirely different character.
Steve Kmetko
BJ, was easily the most decent person, in my opinion, in the mass unit. Thank you, which I don't think is very hard for you to play decent.
Mike Farrell
Well, no, I love playing somebody who has scruples, you know, somebody who has a belief system and lives by it and
Steve Kmetko
a moral compass? Yes, indeed. Do you think Hollywood today is more accepting of activism or just better at packaging it?
Mike Farrell
Well, that's a good question. It's terribly good at packaging it. And I think, like our society, more willing to accept the people on the fringes who are out there doing the real work. So I think it's both. I think it does a terrible job of kind of being relevant. But except in a few instances. But people in the industry are very you know, there's this, what would you call it? There's this array of people in the industry, some of whom are really self involved fools and get a lot of attention and a lot of money and give people the wrong idea about what being famous can offer you and require of you. And then there are other people who. Just really extraordinarily decent, fine, powerful voices who make themselves heard and make themselves known when the time is right. So, you know, I'm lucky, I think, to be involved in with a lot of people who are just really quite terrific and and aren't in it for the accolades, but in it for what the good that can be done. Is there
Steve Kmetko
anyone in the business right now who you admire?
Mike Farrell
Oh, god yes, actually, Jane Fonda is out there, and Jane is Jane is courageous to a degree that's kind of hard for some to understand, but she's not unwilling to risk herself, risk her career, which I think is remarkable and admiring. I admire Alan beyond words, but I think you know people, Bruce Springsteen is doing great things, great things. And a lot of other people are too. I should probably have a list in my head, but I don't. People just have either picked an issue or picked an area and have focused themselves on doing the right thing in it, and it's it. I find it really inspiring to see that and to meet and work with people like that.
Steve Kmetko
How do you feel about the term liberal?
Mike Farrell
I am a liberal, no, and I love the term, although, you know, it gets beaten up a lot, but I'm, you know, a believer in people having the right to be human beings and express themselves and enjoy life. I'm a great believer in the dignity of the human person and the willingness of people to stand up on stand on principle, and support of the rights of other people is urgently important. I think,
Steve Kmetko
Boy, I've enjoyed this. Was there a moment here in your life that that didn't make headlines, that you're particularly proud of, is that even a question you can answer, did it matter more to you than anything else you've done?
Mike Farrell
No, I think I can't think of anything that you know. I'm I'm a proud father, I'm a lucky husband, I'm a a person known, I think, in certain circles, for having very clearly laid out opinions. And I don't mind writing them out or speaking them, and I'm happy to do that.
Steve Kmetko
Tell me what brings you joy?
Mike Farrell
Oh, God, living every day, waking up, looking at my wife, talking to my kids, seeing the effort that they put out, that they put forward. My daughter works with one of the great firms in Los Angeles. It's a legal organization that is pro bono. So it's the only free law firm, one of the only free law firms in the country, and she's an integral part of that. It's my son is an acupuncturist and an herbalist. So he spreads his talents and his understanding about health in ways that some people don't understand. My wife is just a dream. Just a dream. She's a fabulous, wonderful, sweet. I tell her she's the most beautiful woman in the world, and I'm the luckiest man in the world for
Steve Kmetko
sounds like you mean it too. Oh, boy, she could have been singing Johnny angel to you, for crying out loud.
Mike Farrell
It is so funny when that will be somewhere in a in a restaurant or something sometimes and that music will come on, it's like, oh my god, yeah.
Steve Kmetko
Karen Carpenter even did a very nice version of it. Did she on one of their albums? Yes, yeah. Well, what when you think of legacy? Do you ever think in terms of yourself?
Mike Farrell
A legacy. If we, if we succeed, we, being the abolition community, succeeds in ending the use of the death penalty in this country, I will feel that I've contributed to that effort. If we ever begin to understand that prisons don't work the way we've created them and operated them in this country and and really put together organizations that serve the needs, meet the needs and serve the needs of people who are acting inappropriately in society. That will be something that I will feel good about having been part of, whether or not it's my name will be connected with any any memory of that. I don't have any idea. But, you know, I was the co chair for a number of years of human rights watch one of the world's largest human rights organizations, and there's just great need and great work that needs to be done around the world, but unfortunately, today, a great deal of it is being destroyed in this country by the ineptitude and incompetence and ignorance of people in leadership that I find very troubling, and I'm doing everything I can and doing everything that I can encourage other people to do to counter it, because I think we're, I think we're in great danger in this country. So, you know, I don't think my name is going to be attached to anything, but there are many efforts that are out there that I've been part of, that I will be very happy to see succeed,
Steve Kmetko
Mike, I've really enjoyed this.
Mike Farrell
Oh, that's very nice of you. Thank you so bye, actually, thank you. Thank you. You're welcome. I appreciate it. It's my pleasure.
Steve Kmetko
Shelley will never remember me, but tell her. Steve says, Hi, I sure will. From CBS, absolutely still here Hollywood is a production of the still here network, all things technical, run by Justin zangerly, theme music by Brian sanoshin and executive producer is Jim Lichtenstein.