In this heartfelt and revealing episode of Still Here Hollywood, Emmy-winning actress Michael Learned—best known as Olivia Walton on the iconic TV series The Waltons—sits down with host Steve Kmetko for an unforgettable conversation. Michael opens up about her unconventional journey to Hollywood, her years as America's mom, and the challenges she faced both on and off set. From battling alcoholism and overcoming depression, to rediscovering joy in the theater and reflecting on a lasting career that spans Shakespeare, soap operas, and Dahmer, Michael is candid, witty, and inspiring. She shares stories about working with Ralph Waite, her Emmy wins, playing Daisy in Driving Miss Daisy, and why she has no regrets about leaving The Waltons before it ended. This is the definitive interview with a living television legend. #MichaelLearned #TheWaltons #StillHereHollywood #SteveKmetko #ClassicTV #TVLegends #EmmyWinner #HollywoodInterview #DrivingMissDaisy #JeffreyDahmerNetflix #BehindTheScenes #WomenInHollywood #AlcoholRecovery #AAStories #ActressInterview #OldHollywood #WaltonsReunion #OliviaWalton
Steve Kmetko
Yes, I'm Still Here Hollywood, and coming up on today's episode. She's the woman America welcomed into their living rooms every Thursday night from 1972 to 81. The heart and soul of her television family in a 4-time Emmy winner who proved that grace and grit are an engaging combination. But there's so much more to her story, from Shakespeare to soap operas, from personal battles to powerful comebacks. Today, she's here to talk about the life she's lived, the roles that define her. This is Still Here Hollywood. I'm Steve Kmetko. Join me with today's guest from The Waltons, the incomparable Michael Learned. If this is your first time watching or listening to Still Hear Hollywood, what took you so long? Even if you're a longtime fan, I have a favor to ask. If you feel it in your heart, please like and follow us on Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to us, or if you watch on YouTube, please subscribe. And with both, it would be great if you rated and commented on your favorite episodes. Thank you so much. And now on with the show. Hello Michael.
Michael Learned
Hi.
Steve Kmetko
Welcome to Still Here Hollywood.
Michael Learned
Thank you.
Steve Kmetko
So, do you like your white hair? I like mine. It took me a while to get here.
Michael Learned
I think I do actually. You know it makes me look my age, but that's okay. There's a saying in French. I wish my French, I had, I wish I spoke French, but I don't. But it's essentially 20 from the back, 110 from the front. So, I thought I might as well have –
Steve Kmetko
20 from the back –
Michael Learned
Hair match the face.
Steve Kmetko
Okay. I find it hard to believe that you still audition, when need be, with the extensive resume you've put together.
Michael Learned
It's very kind of, you.
Steve Kmetko
You've some funny experiences.
Michael Learned
Well, I had to audition for Ryan Murphy and my wonderful manager Gerry Pass, came over and I had to put something on video, and I get very uptight, passing tests. I become a 5-year-old who can't write my name in kindergarten and, anyway. He then my manager said, I have to take a full body shot of you. And I said, well, if I'd known that I would've worn a bra and hiked myself up. Well, little did I know that when Gerry sent the audition tape to them, I figured he'd cut that out. Of course. I was just kidding. And he left it in and I'm sure to this day that I got the job because it cracked them up.
Steve Kmetko
You're probably right.
Michael Learned
Yep. Because you go to auditions, you see all these, I mean, I hate auditioning, so luckily, I don't have to too much anymore. But for this one, I did. And you know, you see all these wonderful actresses. Obviously, when I'm auditioning, it's with actresses. And you think, why are we having to still prove that we can do what we did? Have we lost our talent or something? Why are we still do; I don't think we have to do that in England. You know, I don't think Vanessa Redgrave has to audition anymore, but in this country, I guess you do—you have to kind of, it's really back to square one.
Steve Kmetko
It's probably called cover your ass. They have bosses to answer to.
Michael Learned
Well, I understand young directors or producers not knowing me or my work, but it would seem to me a meeting would be enough.
Steve Kmetko
You'd think, so.
Michael Learned
Assume that this person can act, and let's see if we have a good chemistry. I understand that. Anyway, enough about that. But it did get me a job, so.
Steve Kmetko
So, remember, keep a bra handy.
Michael Learned
That's right. And have a sense of humor.
Steve Kmetko
Yes.
Michael Learned
Thank God you do.
Steve Kmetko
Your journey to Hollywood was not exactly a conventional one. What drew you to acting in the first place?
Michael Learned
I went to an arts educational school in England because I wanted to be a dancer. And I won the drama cup playing Hecate and Macbeth. And a teacher drew me aside and she said --you know-- you're not a very good dance, so why didn't you think about becoming an actress instead? So, I became a special drama student, and that was kind of it. Yeah.
Steve Kmetko
And that led you to Hollywood?
Michael Learned
What led me here? I came down to meet casting directors from ACT in San Francisco. I was with the --you know—Bill’s Balls company. A repertory company in San Francisco. And I was going through a separation from my husband, and I thought, I've got three kids to support. I better go down to LA and meet casting people. So, I got in my little VW and drove down and my agent called me. I was staying at the Hollywoodland Motel for 11 bucks a night, or 12 bucks I think it was. So, you can imagine—it was right at Cahuenga and Ventura Boulevard. And the phone rang and it was my agent and I just stepped out of the shower and he said, you are there, you are now the mother of America having sent me up for this part called this show called The Waltons—the Waltons. And I had just finished playing Cleopatra, and I was, and Francis Coppola had directed me in private lives. And they wanted me to audition for a woman in her 40s. I was 32, and I had short blonde hair about as short as yours. So, I auditioned because we do what we have to do as actors. And then I got this call saying, you are now the mother of America.
Steve Kmetko
And as it turned out.
Michael Learned
And I was beside myself because I really needed the job. Yeah.
Steve Kmetko
Yeah. It wasn't a come as you are interview, was it? Having just stepped out of the shower?
Michael Learned
No.
Steve Kmetko
Take us back to day one on the set of the Waltons. What was that like? What do you remember?
Michael Learned
My memory is that I was probably hung over for one. And secondly, these kids seemed to know what they were doing. I mean, I had been doing theater for so long, I'd totally forgotten that you're supposed to hit marks that a sound, you could kill a sound man's hearing by screaming or making a loud noise. And I was just like an elephant in an antique shop. I didn't know where to go or what to do, and I was grieving my marriage and blah, blah, blah. And these kids were all like this, and very professional, and they hit their marks, and they're very gracious, all of them. And Ralph and Richard went out of their way to kind of make me feel welcome. And that was it. It was like a whole new world for me.
Steve Kmetko
The show was on the air for 11 years.
Michael Learned
I'm not sure I left after 8. I think it was 10 years, maybe longer.
Steve Kmetko
Okay.
Michael Learned
I'm not sure.
Steve Kmetko
Did you remain friends with everybody? Did they?
Michael Learned
Oh, we were very close.
Steve Kmetko
Was it?
Michael Learned
Truly, they were all at my wedding. They're like a second family. I just heard from David Harper calls himself my son. And so yeah, we're really close.
Steve Kmetko
The show was known for its strong values and you really were kind of America's mother for a while. Did that ever feel like a responsibility?
Michael Learned
Not now, because I think I've established myself as a salty mouthed old lady. But I think back then --yes-- both Ralph and I felt, we both were drinking at the time. We both got sober. Yeah, we didn't feel we could be the mom and dad of America, if you will. Not that we were the only ones. There were other shows with wonderful mothers and fathers, but and we both got sober and it stuck. So yeah, I guess we did feel a bit of a responsibility.
Steve Kmetko
As someone who's also taken the sobriety journey, what made you decide to go that route? Why did you think you needed to stop drinking?
Michael Learned
Well, I didn't, but Ralph thought I did, so. I was going to support him. Oh, I'm sorry, microphone. I was going to support Ralph, and I hope I'm not breaking his anonymity, but forgive me Ralph if I am. But he said --you know-- I'm going to Alcoholics Anonymous. And I said, Bravo, that's good. You really need it. Congratulations. He said, I'd like you to come with me. And I said, of course, I'll come, I'll support you a 100%. And at the end of the day, I was tired and I said, I'm going to take a rain check and we'll do it another time. And he took me by, he put his hands on my shoulders and looked at me with those blue eyes of his, and he said, I think you should come. And my stomach did a little flip flop. It was like, what do you mean me? And but I went and I learned a lot about myself.
Steve Kmetko
Alcoholics are always the last to know.
Michael Learned
That's right. And I didn't have a very dramatic story, thankfully, I didn't run over one of my children or --you know-- steal anything or get them, thank God. Not an automobile accident. But when I look back at the risks I took sometimes with my kids in the car, I just shudder and I thank God. Yeah.
Steve Kmetko
It's surprising when you have to, what they call an AA do a drunk log --you know-- sometimes they make you write down.
Michael Learned
Oh yeah.
Steve Kmetko
Everything you can remember that you've done.
Michael Learned
They're very good steps. There are 12 steps, and they're very good steps to live by. And actually, yeah. And I'm an Al-Anon person --you know-- Al-Anon which is, I'm sort of what they call a double winner. I always say a double loser, but in the end, you're a double winner if you kind of recognize your problems and deal with them.
Steve Kmetko
Did you find that after a while? And not that long for me anyway. I just felt like this is easy. Once you get the hang of it, it's easy.
Michael Learned
Oh, sure. Much easier. I stopped being lost. I didn't get lost anymore when I was trying to find my way in a --you know-- yeah. But it's also, there's a soul searching that you have to do. That it's difficult for someone, for me anyway, as I say, I hadn't gotten into, I got off before the train hit the wall. I was on the train, but I jumped off before it hit the wall. So luckily, I didn't have some of the horror stories that I've heard. And in truth, as you, I'm sure know you hear these horror stories, but you find yourself laughing at them because the person telling them is no longer in that place.
Steve Kmetko
And you go—I did that.
Michael Learned
Oh, yeah. Or that too. Yeah.
Steve Kmetko
Yeah. You made it what must have been a tough call to leave the Waltons before it was over. Did you ever regret that?
Michael Learned
No, I didn't.
Steve Kmetko
Were you just tired of it? Was it enough?
Michael Learned
It was, yeah. It's hard to say. On the one hand, I wept because we were such a family, even the crew, we were all really close and like a family. But on the other hand, I got tired of—they didn't know what to do with me, but Earl Hamner himself said to me, we want you in the shot. So, they'd have me ironing and going, and then what happened, kids? And then where did you go? John-Boy, more coffee and things just to have me in the scene. But as an actor it was just boring.
Steve Kmetko
Not challenging.
Michael Learned
And yeah. And so as grateful as I am for the break, and it put my kids through private school --you know-- I am eternally, you're always in my way. What are you doing? And all of that, I truly am grateful. But at the time I complained a lot. You know, I want to be home with my kids. And here I was with these lovely kids, but they weren't mine, so.
Steve Kmetko
One of the Emmys you got, you received, you have four, I believe, three for the Waltons and one for Nurse. Yet Nurse just doesn't get the attention, or it almost seems as though it's been forgotten.
Michael Learned
I thought it was a good show.
Steve Kmetko
Yeah.
Michael Learned
Did you ever see any of it?
Steve Kmetko
I think I did. But you know.
Michael Learned
I thought it was a good show. It was a struggle because the book was a gritty book and there were scripts coming to New York that --you know-- Mary goes home and soaks in her hot tub. Well, Mary's living in Harlem in New York. And I had a hard time with things like that. There were no hot tubs in Harlem, in New York. There are locks on the doors. There were no locks on her apartment door. I said --you know-- she's living in New York. There were bolts and locks on every door, no matter what part of New York you're living in. And so, I was a pain in the ass, I think. And yeah, I offended a lot of people and I didn't work for 10 years.
Steve Kmetko
Really?
Michael Learned
Mm, in television. Yeah.
Steve Kmetko
Because of?
Michael Learned
I think because I was a pain in the ass. And I'll pardon, a pain in the donkey. I don’t know if you're allowed to say that anymore.
Steve Kmetko
Close enough. Oh, yes. Haven't you watched lately? You can say just about anything on television anymore. You've said before that your characters kept you company during tough times.
Michael Learned
Working, kept me company. I mean, working was, I love to work. I love it more now because I don't have kids at home waiting for me to come home and help them with their homework. And Mom, you said you'd be home and they deserve a lot of credit. Because when you're doing television, you're gone most of the time. And they were soldiers. They were wonderful. And now, they're all grown up.
Steve Kmetko
Well, that happens.
Michael Learned
Yeah, I know.
Steve Kmetko
From Shakespeare to soap opera, you've done it all. Which format did you feel most at home in?
Michael Learned
Theater.
Steve Kmetko
Theater?
Michael Learned
Mm and Television now. But theater's like, if I walk into a theater, it's like, church for me in a way. There's just, you could just feel something that the words, even on stage, I remember doing Dylan Tom and Dylan Thomas' suddenly, I can't think of the name of the play. Anyway, and sitting there and thinking, I'm sitting on stage. I'm speaking these incredible words. I'm the most blessed human being in the world. And I feel that in theater. I don't feel that so much in film or television. I don't know why.
Steve Kmetko
Maybe because of the live nature of theater. I know that's how I feel when I go to see a show on stage. You're seeing them the person actually perform.
Michael Learned
And it's different every night.
Steve Kmetko
Yes.
Michael Learned
You know, I remember once we—during private lives that we were on a rake stage and at the end of Act 1, we have a terrible fight. And at the beginning of Act 2, they had the set, well completely, almost demolished. Everything that's in pictures are hanging off, falling off the wall, and the couch is turned over and blah, blah, blah. And in the middle of a scene, the first scene, an ice bucket that was at the top of the rake stage started to roll down the staged, and it would go bloo, bloo. And finally, Paul Shenar and I, we're trying to act over this. And, you know, every eye in the audience is on this ice bucket. And so finally the two of us just went like that until it finally rolled off the stage. And somebody picked it up and put it back on. And there was a huge laugh and applause and the show went on. But that kind of thing that happens in the theater when you least expect something and you're not quite sure how to deal with it, and you just do the best you can. And sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. But yeah, that's what I love about theater. And the audience was with us the whole time. They were feeling everything. They were like, what are they going to do? Are they okay? Are they going to be upset? And blah. And that's what I love about theater.
Steve Kmetko
Back with more in a moment. If you'd like to be more involved with us at Still Here Hollywood, you definitely can just visit Patreon.com/StillHereHollywood. You can support us for as little as $3 a month. You can get our episodes a day before they post anywhere else. You can see what guests will be coming up and submit questions for them. You can even tell us what stars you want us to have on as guests. You'll see what goes on before and after the episode. Plus, exclusive behind the scenes info picks video and more. Again, that's Patreon.com/StillHereHollywood. One of the things I'd like to ask you about is the name Michael, unless you, okay, if you're tired of answering, but –
Michael Learned
No, it's just, I think, I wonder why my parents did that to me. They didn't even know me and they were already pissed off. But anyway, they never, my father, I said to him, why didn't you name me Michael? And he said, well, if you'd been a boy, we would've named you Caleb. But as you were a girl, we decided to name you Michael. That was the answer I got. So that's why I'm an actress, though.
Steve Kmetko
Have you ever met another woman named Michael?
Michael Learned
I did.
Steve Kmetko
Oh, you did. Did you converse about your names?
Michael Learned
We did. We hugged each other and we'd never met, but it's like we both threw our arms around each other. And it's so long ago now, but I think it was in Toronto. And I think she was an actress too. And or maybe she was a poetic, I can't remember. It was a long time ago. But we were both incredibly moved. Because we knew, we'd both been through the horrors of childhood when you're a little bit unusual and you want to be like everybody else, you know.
Steve Kmetko
Do you remember the horrors of childhood due to your name?
Michael Learned
Well, it's not that bad. It wasn't that bad, but teachers wouldn't believe me. What is your name little girl? My name is Michael. What is your real name? Michael. Are you sure? Are you sure you're not Michelle? Yes. Are you sure you're not Mickey? Yes. Well, what is your real name, honey? My real name is Michael. That kind of thing. And you feel really small because you are—sorry.
Steve Kmetko
Well, you know my last name is spelled KM, no vowel.
Michael Learned
Oh, really?
Steve Kmetko
And I had same kind of thing. Teachers were always asking you spelling your name wrong.
Michael Learned
So, you know?
Steve Kmetko
Yes. I'm not spelling my name wrong.
Michael Learned
Over here, over the mics.
Steve Kmetko
Yeah. Anyway –
Michael Learned
We survived.
Steve Kmetko
Yes, we survived.
Michael Learned
Here we are.
Steve Kmetko
Here we are.
Michael Learned
Yeah.
Steve Kmetko
Did you ever feel like Hollywood might forget you? Or that your time had passed?
Michael Learned
Well, yeah, it has really, in a way. I mean, it's not like it was when we were in the top 10 as the Waltons. But it doesn't bother me. I mean, I don't feel like it has been. But my time in the light is dimmed. And I'm glad I had the light and I'm also glad it's over.
Steve Kmetko
Really?
Michael Learned
Yeah.
Steve Kmetko
Is there anything you'd consider doing –
Michael Learned
Huh?
Steve Kmetko
Is there anything you'd consider doing today if it were offered to you?
Michael Learned
I wouldn't—sure, I'd love an offer, you got one.
Steve Kmetko
Would I be sitting here? Kidding. Yes, I'd be sitting here. I love this. I'm having the best time. Theater. Would you do theater? Would you do film?
Michael Learned
Oh, I'm going to Canada next year to do a lovely play with a couple of guys who worked at Stratford, the Shakespeare Festival at Stratford. And I've worked there before. And I love it. It's a small little town, it's called of all things Petrolia, because it was one of those oil towns back in the day. And they have a lovely little theater. And so, I'm going to do a play that apparently was done here. It's called Doris and Ivy. Apparently, it was done here. Because I thought, oh, if it's good, I'll bring it, you know, back. So, I don't know.
Steve Kmetko
You also played Daisy in Driving Miss Daisy?
Michael Learned
I did. All over the place. Oh, I love that role.
Steve Kmetko
Oh, it's been a boon for a number of addresses.
Michael Learned
I never got tired of doing it.
Steve Kmetko
I saw Julie Harris do it here.
Michael Learned
Yeah.
Steve Kmetko
I saw Vanessa Redgrave in London doing it.
Michael Learned
Oh, in London.
Steve Kmetko
Yeah. With James Earl Jones. I think it's a wonderful. Yes. It's a wonderful play.
Michael Learned
Yes, it is. And it holds up. I never ever got tired of, I toured it. I did all, I've done it a thousand times.
Steve Kmetko
Really?
Michael Learned
It's a gift for an actress.
Steve Kmetko
A nice gift, because usually when you get to a certain age, and you're in front of the camera, things kind of dry up.
Michael Learned
I was too young when I started playing it. I had to wear wigs and everything now. Now I'm afraid I'm getting too old to play it but –
Steve Kmetko
You played Jeffrey Dahmer's grandmother in Monster.
Michael Learned
That was a treat. Yeah.
Steve Kmetko
What was that like for you?
Michael Learned
It was fine. I didn't—I was glad for the work and there were no scenes of killing in anything I had to do. And Evan Peters is a gorgeous person, so it was easy for me to love him. I just played denial, denial, denial. Although I do find it hard, I think if one of my grandsons, I had a grandson at the time living with me, and I have another one now living with me. But if he walked through the kitchen, dragging a bag full of body parts, I think –
Steve Kmetko
You might be.
Michael Learned
Yeah.
Steve Kmetko (
Suspicious.
Michael Learned
I think I might say what's in that bag.
Steve Kmetko
Yeah. Its funny life plays tricks on you. I knew, not intentionally but my paths crossed with John Gacy, John Wayne Gacy.
Michael Learned
Oh.
Steve Kmetko
Yeah. I was working at a pharmacy and he was worked as a contractor and he was remodeling our pharmacy. And several times he asked me to have a meal with him, but he always gave me the creeps. Honest to God, before I knew what he did, he gave me the creeps. So, I'm glad I didn't, you know.
Michael Learned
It's weird how, because Ted Bundy, Dahmer, they're all very good-looking men. Handsome in the conventional sense of the word, but there is something just creepy about them. You know, you can feel it.
Steve Kmetko
If your younger self could see your life now, what would absolutely shock them?
Michael Learned
Oh, oh.
Steve Kmetko
Spill.
Michael Learned
That's a—can we come back to that question?
Steve Kmetko
Sure.
Michael Learned
That's interesting. I don't think—I how good it is maybe because –
Steve Kmetko
You think that was.
Michael Learned
I had a turbulent youth. I was, it's, I don't want to get into psychological stuff, but I was prone to depression and I had a great life. Everything outside was perfect and wonderful but inside I was a wreck. And I'm not there anymore. I wake up and I look around and I'm happy to be alive. And my cat's next to me, and my kids are healthy, thank God. And I just maybe never knew it was going to be so good to be old.
Steve Kmetko
Have you observed, though, it seems to me in my dealings with people in the entertainment industry that depression is not uncommon?
Michael Learned
No, I think that's true. And maybe that's why we want to be somebody else. I don't know. For me, in the beginning when I was young and at school I loved the words. I loved Shakespeare, I loved Monier, I loved all the classics, Chekhov. And I just loved; it was like analysis for me. I learned so much from these masters. And I still get that feeling when I'm on stage. I don't get it as much in television or film.
Steve Kmetko
It's my opinion, my theory. Because every once in a while, --you know-- people come and they're prepared to talk. They know they're doing an interview. Sometimes it doesn't always work out that way. And my theory is that they became an actor or an actress. We just use actor now, I guess. Because they had no personality to call their own, you know. If they're a real stinker.
Michael Learned
I love say that.
Steve Kmetko
Not you of course.
Michael Learned
No, not me.
Steve Kmetko
No. But --you know-- every once in a while.
Michael Learned
I think it's rude, frankly. I see sometimes on talk shows, I see actors of renowned --you know-- just sitting there being silent with their kind of a little bit of a sneer on their faces. And I think how rude, how arrogant of you, you're plugging yourself and you're an interviewer is trying to talk to you. And you're just --you know-- I think it's very rude myself.
Steve Kmetko
Bless you.
Michael Learned
Not that I'm judgmental.
Steve Kmetko
You can be on my team. Who in your life helped keep you grounded?
Michael Learned
My kids.
Steve Kmetko
How many children do you have?
Michael Learned
I have three sons. And I adored them. I mean, it was the happiest time of my life was my kids being –
Steve Kmetko
Being a mother.
Michael Learned
Yeah. And still is. Now I have grandkids. I have five.
Steve Kmetko
Wow.
Michael Learned
I finally have little girls because I had three boys. And so, I have a little—they're not little anymore, but I hope I'm alive to have a great grandchild. I remember my first grandchild, Ari, his name is Ari. He's wants to be a chef. And I looked at him and I said, I've known you forever. It was like eye to eye with this baby. And it was, I guess it's genetic or whatever it is, but he was not a strange little baby. He was just part of me.
Steve Kmetko
That's a nice sentiment.
Michael Learned
Yeah, it was really special. Very special.
Steve Kmetko
Special.
Michael Learned
Who's that actor? This is so well.
Steve Kmetko
Dana Carvey, I think.
Michael Learned
Yes, thank you.
Steve Kmetko
Who does the church lady?
Michael Learned
It's so special.
Steve Kmetko
It's not special. Yes. Did your kids ever see you as Olivia Walton or when they watched reruns or did they recognize you as mom?
Michael Learned
Mom, just mom. No. we used to watch the show together and not my teenage kids. They were above it. But my youngest son and I would watch, sit down and watch Thursday night, 8 o'clock. And I remember I was in the kitchen cooking or doing something, fixing dinner or something. And he said, mom, that music makes me so happy. And so, we were just like fans watching the Waltons. Yeah.
Steve Kmetko
What do you think when you hear, goodnight, John-boy.
Michael Learned
Oh, I love it.
Steve Kmetko
Does anybody ever say that to you?
Michael Learned
Yeah. The only time I had a hard time was once when I was checking out at Ralph's. And the woman said, you know who you look like. And I said who do you think I look like? And she said, you look like Michael Learned. And I said, well, I am. She said, no, you're not. And I had to pull out my license and show her that I was, now I feel like a fool. Why did I go for that? Why did I pull up my license? Yes. I really am.
Steve Kmetko
Well, I got to confess, I saw you once at a restaurant on, I think it was on Wilshire. I was with my parents. It was not long after the Waltons had wrapped up. But I recognized you. But I didn't want to come over --you know-- I was with my parents. I didn't like --you know-- they didn't want, no, let's not bother her.
Michael Learned
It's very thoughtful of them. But still, I always like it when people come up.
Steve Kmetko
Do you?
Michael Learned
Yeah. The only trouble is now, I thought I was sort of playing a character in the Dahmer story, but people are recognizing me and saying, you were the grandma in the Dahmer story. And I'm going, but I was wearing a wig and I was, they were making me look horrible and I think, no, that's how you look. And I don't like being recognized as Jeffrey Dahmer's grandma, as much as I like being recognized as Olivia.
Steve Kmetko
You like getting the paychecks though? That was, okay?
Michael Learned
Oh, yes. Yes. So, kind.
Steve Kmetko
When fans come up to you, what do they usually say?
Michael Learned
They're usually very kind except for two actresses, well-known actresses that it went in my memoir if I ever get it written I will name, but I won't name it here. I'll tell you later.
Steve Kmetko
Okay.
Michael Learned
But we were in an elevator together and they were so damn rude and --excuse me-- I don't know what the word means, but they were so rude. And because they knew who I was. And they started talking about that show --you know-- where all the kids wore those blue jeans and bare feet and they were making fun of me. And I didn't have the chutzpah or whatever to call them on it. So, I just stood there in horrible humiliation and said nothing. So that sits with you. When somebody dumps in your lap, you need to give it back, I think in some way. You know, at least acknowledge that you're being made fun of. And it wasn't kind. It was like, I thought these are—we really back in the third grade. And I still haven't gotten over it, obviously because I'm talking about it, but they were just so rude.
Steve Kmetko
Don't give into the haters. We'll be right back. What about TV shows today? Are there any in particular that you watch?
Michael Learned
You know, I forget to turn the—I watched a lot with my husband. He loved television. And I read—no, I don't read anything profound anymore. I used to, but I just like to read. But I watch Netflix. I don't have any—I watch Seinfeld --you know-- I stream or whatever they say, you know. Yeah. But I can go for a couple of days without turning the TV on, except for news.
Steve Kmetko
I've stopped watching news.
Michael Learned
Yeah. It's horrible.
Steve Kmetko
It upsets me too much.
Michael Learned
I agree –
Steve Kmetko
I used to work in it. Now it's—yeah.
Michael Learned
It's really, really painful. Especially what's going on with the flood.
Steve Kmetko
Wow. What do you want your legacy to be?
Michael Learned
I don't care. I don't need to have a legacy. I just, I want my kids to speak kindly of me, and they do. And I think women don't have the same, I'm just looking thinking maybe this is a little bit down too far. I don't think women have the same drive when kids are my legacy, my kids. Really. and I'm not being smarmy about it. But who's going to remember the Waltons 50-years from now? Nobody.
Steve Kmetko
You never know.
Michael Learned
Well, it would be nice.
Steve Kmetko
Speaking of—I saw something you might enjoy on Netflix. I've watched it like three times now because I like it so much. But there's a, it came out quite some time ago. It's a documentary about Greta Garbo.
Michael Learned
Oh no.
Steve Kmetko
Yes. It's just called Garbo. Where have you gone? And I think it came out in like 2012.
Michael Learned
Is it revealing? I mean, I love it. I love all the secrets.
Steve Kmetko
You're not going to learn anything new, I don't think. But it's interesting. She was such an interesting person.
Michael Learned
She was amazing. Yeah.
Steve Kmetko
And the way people talked about her, Orson Welles and, you know.
Michael Learned
Oh, I'm going to watch it. Oh, something to look forward to. Thank you.
Steve Kmetko
It's like an hour and a half. And most of it is black and white, which I'm certain you don't mind. Like, I don't mind black and white.
Michael Learned
Excuse me. No, I don't.
Steve Kmetko
Might check it out. Looking back, is there a role you wish you'd said yes to?
Michael Learned
No. I mean, I can't remember. I turned something down that Francis Coppola offered me. Excuse me. I seem to have a piece of grass in my throat.
Steve Kmetko
Stop eating grass.
Michael Learned
Yeah. It's not becoming. No, there isn't really. I sometimes question whether I should have accepted the Waltons, but it was life altering. I was supposed to go on tour with private lives that Francis directed, and working with him was a dream. I've written him several letters. I never mailed them, but I think I will now because he's retired. I did. I never wanted him to think I was looking for another job. But working—he understands the process of an actor and he gives you freedom and he makes you feel like you're good. And we need that. We actors, at least I do. If, if a director makes me feel like I'm on the right track and I'm good, I'll give him an --you know-- I'll just go for it a 100%. But if I feel that the director's going and some of them do, then I just start to shrivel inside, you know. So not so much. Now I'm old and I don't give a, you know. But when you're young and you want to work and they're gods up there who can control your life, you're willing to do just about anything. I mean, that's why my eyebrows don't come to the corner of my eyes. Because some agent told me I should pluck all my eyebrows and --you know-- you just will do whatever they tell you to do. And I feel for young actors today, I think they're a little stronger woman, young actors, but they're still at the mercy of the quote grownups, I think.
Steve Kmetko
Wow. Is there anything on your personal or professional agenda?
Michael Learned
I just want to work whenever I can. And no, my personal life is—my husband just died in February and we were married for—we were together for 33 years.
Steve Kmetko
That's a long time.
Michael Learned
So, I'm still --you know-- a little raw, quite a bit raw actually but having had those wonderful years with him, he was such a wonderful person. And so, he made me feel cherished and I'd never felt that before. My poor mother had 6 girls. We were a handful for her, so I always felt like I was a pain in the ass. And he made me feel special. And so, I'm grateful to have had it, but I miss him terribly. I really do.
Steve Kmetko
My parents were married for 71 years.
Michael Learned
Oh my.
Steve Kmetko
And you couldn't, it got to the point where you couldn't tell where one ended and the other began.
Michael Learned
Yeah. Oh, that's nice.
Steve Kmetko
Yeah. They eloped too, so.
Michael Learned
Did they?
Steve Kmetko
Yes, my father loved to say, they said it wouldn't last. Yeah, right.
Michael Learned
He showed them.
Steve Kmetko
Yeah, he did.
Michael Learned
Yeah.
Steve Kmetko
If the Waltons ever got a reboot --you know-- that's pretty popular these days, rebooting a show. Would you consider they asked you –
Michael Learned
Like grandma or great grandma.
Steve Kmetko
Or something, yeah.
Michael Learned
It would depend on the money, honestly.
Steve Kmetko
I like the way you think.
Michael Learned
It would have to be, they'd have to pay me. Because, well, although I think grandma in our show had a wonderful role. I mean, she was spunky and sparky, Ellen Corby.
Steve Kmetko
Right.
Michael Learned
I was with her just before she died actually. Her caregiver couldn't handle her. Her caregiver's husband had cancer. And Ellen was very challenged from her stroke. So, I went over and got Ellen and took her to the motion picture home. And they had the audacity. They put her in a—I'll never get in the moo; I don't want to go to there anyway. But they put her in a room facing a wall—I mean, she's dying. It was obvious. Facing a wall, no window and a bathroom door. That was her last look at anything on earth. And you talk about being salty. The language that I used that day, the motion picture was it got people's attention. Let's say, and they moved her finally to a room where she could look out into the garden. At least that, you know. But I thought, here's this woman who's donated to you for years and years and years, and you're putting her in her that's crappy little bed with two other people facing a wall in a toilet. It just really. So, I've been looking other places.
Steve Kmetko
I had a director friend who went there for his fun last years, but he had purchased a cottage.
Michael Learned
Oh, right.
Steve Kmetko
One of their cottages which was quite nice. Yeah. Crossroads with you and Pat Boone?
Michael Learned
Oh yes. I don't even know what happened to that. I don't, did it ever get on the air?
Steve Kmetko
It's now running on Christian network.
Michael Learned
Oh, it is. Okay. That's nice.
Steve Kmetko
What memories do you have of that?
Michael Learned
It was a pleasant shoot. I think I only shot one day. I think I did all my scenes pretty much in one day. And it was just another one of those magical days. Hi. I know you're there now so I know how to work around you. So, he was very pleasant, very professional. And the crew was fabulous. I don't know if, I think actors do appreciate crews because I think every member of every crew should be always mentioned whenever anybody gets an award for anything. Because they're the ones that make it happen. And of course, the editors who can make you look good, even if you suck. I mean, they really can.
Steve Kmetko
But you've earned their respect, I think.
Michael Learned
Well, that's kind of you to say. Thank you. Maybe it's mutual.
Steve Kmetko
Maybe.
Michael Learned
And certainly, on the Waltons we were all very close. I still remember our first crew. I know every single name and yeah, it's a family, hopefully.
Steve Kmetko
Right.
Michael Learned
See how I did that? How smooth? Oops.
Steve Kmetko
It was excellent.
Michael Learned
I just screwed it up again.
Steve Kmetko
Excellent. And now we're done. So, you don't have to worry about it anymore.
Michael Learned
I'm never—always be humble because the minute you get proud, your egos kick in and you hit the microphone and you're done.
Steve Kmetko
Thank you very much for coming in today.
Michael Learned
Making it so easy. Thank you.
Steve Kmetko
Yeah. I appreciate it.
Michael Learned
It has been fun, actually.
Steve Kmetko
Still Here Hollywood is a production of the Still Here Network. All things technical run by Justin Zangerle. Theme music by Brian Sanyshyn, and executive producer is Jim Lichtenstein.