Steve Kmetko:
Yes, I'm Still Here Hollywood. Coming up on today's episode, our guest today has worked steadily in Hollywood for over 6 decades, which means he's either doing something very right, or he made a deal with a really good agent and the devil. He's played everything from nerdy kid to government suit, to guy who clearly knows more than he's letting on. He's best known as America's favorite four eyed little brother. This is Still Here Hollywood. I'm four eyed Steve Kmetko. Join me with today's guest actor Barry Livingston. Ernie from My Three Sons.
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Barry, thanks for coming in today. I'm really glad to see you.
Barry Livingston:
I'm glad to hear it.
Steve Kmetko:
I watch you are a part of my youth growing up.
Barry Livingston:
Oh, thank you.
Steve Kmetko:
A big part.
Barry Livingston:
Thank you.
Steve Kmetko:
In fact, I can still do the, at the beginning, my songs.
Barry Livingston:
I know exactly where you're going with that. You got to get the feed in there. Now we owe Frank De Vol Royalty.
Steve Kmetko:
Oh, do really?
Barry Livingston:
He was sang that. He's the guy who wrote the theme song.
Steve Kmetko:
Merv Griffin used to get a royalty every time they played the Jeopardy theme. Is that?
Barry Livingston:
Right? Wow.
Steve Kmetko:
Yes, that's true. You were one of the first actors, child actors to wear glasses on tv.
Barry Livingston:
I did. Before we did doing this, I briefly explained the story. I wasn't wearing glasses. I got cast in a movie. The very first thing I ever did called Rally Around the Flag Boys with Paul Newman and Joanne Woodward. My brother actually had an audition to go to Fox 20th Century Fox and audition for the producers playing one of the sons. My mother just dragged me along and I'm five years old, I guess four or five. And anyway, back in the day, you'd go in and you read, they came out and go, we love your son, we're going to hire him. But then they go, who's that? And then, and I'm sitting there and they're going, well, there's another son. There's two kids that Paul and Joanne, who are the stars and married and they said, does he act?
And I was just like, I don't know. I was like, you know, I'm going. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I went in, came out, got the job. Anyway, that's that was my entry into Hollywood. I wasn't wearing glasses at the time when I got cast. And I had a little problem on the set. And my eyes started to cross. And they took me to a hospital. They, you know, weren't sure if I was having a seizure or what they thought, you know, we better check this out. I went straight to Cedar-Sinai, probably over in that area, and they said, no, he's got an astigmatism. He needs his glasses. I came back to the Saturday or two later and said, we got to fire this kid. Because We didn't see Paul Newman's son back in the day. Yeah, I bucked teeth and Mo Howard Bull cut and glasses, and they're going, I think the glasses is a bit, bit much. And I was driven off. I can remember to this day being put in the back of him a limousine and being driven off a lot. I was like, wow, welcome to Hollywood.
Steve Kmetko:
Easy come, easy go.
Barry Livingston:
It was, yeah.
Steve Kmetko:
Did you and your brother work a lot?
Barry Livingston:
You know, we worked, that was the first thing we did together. And I'm still in the movie, actually. They replaced me with another kid. But the very first scene where you see it, I'm upside down. Because Percy Kilbride, I think the character actor and Joanne Woodburn had me by the feet. And I'm upside down Because I swallow some coins and it's a gag. They're shaking me, but in the rest of the movie, it's a, when the kid's standing on his feet, it's a different kid. So, we started out there then Ozzie and Harriet Stan was on that show for a while, and I think I did one or two episodes with Stan while he was the kid. Next door Stan got cast as chip on my three sons. And then the Nelsons Ozzy literally just slipped me into the, the kid next door slot. So yeah, a few times. Those are the, you know, probably the most prominent
Steve Kmetko:
Percy Kilbride, wasn't he Pa Kettle?
Barry Livingston:
I think so, yeah. Yeah, yeah.
Steve Kmetko:
Where did I pull that from?
Barry Livingston:
That's, that's a good one.
Steve Kmetko:
Did you enjoy working together? You and your brother?
Barry Livingston:
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it was a pain for me to get let go. Because I thought, well, they didn't fire him. You know, I'm the one who got the ax. So, I mean, you know, he had nothing to do with it, obviously. And it was, you know, the showbiz. But it was I loved being around my brother, you know, it's my big brother. And we he looked out for me and, and it was fun to be in his company. So even all the years we were on my three sons was, was you know, a real joy and a pleasure. And, you know, and Don Grady, who was played Robbie, you know, became my pseudo brother, Tim Considine, who was actually the guy replaced in my three sons, was very brotherly to me. So, you know, in addition to having my real brother, I had my extra brothers
Steve Kmetko:
Don Grady passed away, not terribly long ago.
Barry Livingston:
Yeah, maybe eight, seven or eight years ago.
Steve Kmetko:
And what was it like working with Fred McMurray and William Frawley and William Dees?
Barry Livingston:
Well, there was you know, Fred was clearly the CEO of the company, and we were kind of junior executives in the firm, you know, treated with respect and but he lived a whole other stratosphere. His whole world was, he was a major star for 20, 30 years before he went to my three sons. So, you know, he was always polite. He was always, he was kind of a shy guy though, actually. He was a very reserved man, conservative you know, he was always respectful and helpful and, but never in any way were we invited to his house for a Christmas dinner or Thanksgiving, or I think we got a Christmas card from, I don't think we ever even got a present from Fred, but that was the way he did things Frawley and Mertz were, you know, they were both again, they were both long, long time well established character actors and stars in their own right. And of course, we love Frawley from, I love Lucy as Fred Mertz. So, you know, I wasn't that familiar with Demist until, you know, suddenly, you know, he was in my three sons. And I went, oh, you know, he's been a lot of big, great movies.
Steve Kmetko:
And that show didn't seem to skip a beat.
Barry Livingston:
No, it didn't. It could slide people in and out, you know, pretty easily. There was, I think, a six episode arc that explained Ernie, who I came onto the show as the friend next door. Well, Tim Considine, who was the original oldest son, was still there. But then they, Tim wanted to direct and they let him direct one episode, but I don't think Fred and he made this demand, the next time contract negotiations came up, he would like to be the full-time director. And Fred was not going to have that. So, they said, you know, bye. And I was waiting in the bullpen for the call, came in as the adopted son, and there was six episodes. Once they got past those six episodes. You never heard about Mike ever again. You never understood how Ernie suddenly became part of the Douglas family, you know, television, that era.
Steve Kmetko:
And then they slipped Beverly Garland into?
Barry Livingston:
Tina Cole, Beverly Garland had Don Lin there was some Jodi Foster was a recurring character on the show for a while. You know, they had all kinds of, you know, big people early in their careers. Ryan O'Neal, Bruce Stern, Martin Sheen all kinds of people came through there. Ed Begley, Ed Begley Senior, and Ed Begley Jr.
Steve Kmetko:
Ed Begley Jr. was here on this show.
Barry Livingston:
Was he? Yeah. Huh. Yeah, no, they, it was, you know, again, it only after time I remember I was doing a show called The Guardian, and Emilio Esteve was directing it. And one day he came in and said, the old man said to say, hi, I'm going old man. That's it. He said, my dad, my dad, he was telling my three sons with you. I was like, oh, really? Yeah. I was probably in the school room or something, and didn't have much to do with him, but I thought, well, you know, he remembered. That was nice.
Steve Kmetko:
Well, that was quite an introduction and education for you.
Barry Livingston:
Yeah. I mean--
Steve Kmetko:
Growing up through all those people and seeing how they work and--
Barry Livingston:
Yeah. I mean, primarily I was exposed to McMurray and he was a gifted comedian and, and a gifted actor. And Fraley and Martz were, were in their own right. You know, really good at what they did. You know, you had no idea who was going to move on to a career, you know, beyond that. Actually, Ryan O'Neill was originally cast as Robbie and in the pilot, and, and McMurray didn't think he was funny. And he was replaced with, with Don Grady. Of course, Brian went on to have a fabulous career as a light comedian. Yeah. so, yeah, you know, there was a lot of good people.
Steve Kmetko:
You mentioned your mother being there for some of the activities going on. Was she a stage mom?
Barry Livingston:
My mother and I'll be --
Steve Kmetko:
I asked that with all due respect.
Barry Livingston:
I know. No, she was a character, and she, I'll be completely frank with you. She was a burlesque dancer. She met my dad. My dad owned burlesque theaters in Baltimore, and she ran away at 16 from Beaver Falls, Pennsylvania. Never got the full story. Why? But nonetheless. So, they--
Steve Kmetko:
Because it was called Beaver Falls.
Barry Livingston:
Yeah. It was a good place to get. Oh, the only other guy was Joe Namath came from Beaver Falls. But so, I never, so they had this show busy kind of connection. They no entries, no nepotism to like, or, you know, some, some rich producer uncle that brought us into the biz, but they were well aware of movies. Because at the theaters, my dad owned that. They were movie theaters as well. But that, there was comedians, there was jugglers, there was burlesque dancers. There was everything 24/7. So, she as a stage mother, she didn't like it. She didn't have the personality. Again, you know, she, she was a gypsy Rosalie stripper. And that's the kind of personality that isn't going to sit on a set and do crossword puzzles nine hours out of the day.
Steve Kmetko:
Crochet.
Barry Livingston:
No, no, no. She figured it out real quick. This is the most boring world when you're not in the spotlight. And you're just sitting off set like, you know, doing nothing for nine hours out of the day. So, so she yeah, it was probably good that she wasn't there as that hovering stage mother presence. That can be kind of annoying.
Steve Kmetko:
Were there ever times on the set of my three sons where you realized you were learning more than just acting?
Barry Livingston:
Well, certainly when Tina Cole came on, I certainly understood she was. She was a pretty hot looking girl. And I was coming into an age where those things were becoming more and more you know, I could see things that I didn't see when I was six or seven. I was probably 12 or 13 going, oh. So, I learned that, if that's what you meant, I mean, yes, I learned that, that there were, there were some very attractive people in Hollywood acting wise. You know, I mean, you just osmosis, you just with good people, and you, hopefully you absorb some of that. And, you know,
Steve Kmetko:
Well, Tina was also a member of the King family. Right?
Barry Livingston:
She was a king cousin.
Steve Kmetko:
A king cousin.
Barry Livingston:
A king cousin. And yeah, she, you know, she was vivacious. And Beverly Garland who came onto the show again, you know, she was quite a large personality. And yeah, you're just fortunate that, that I was surrounded by really great talent and, you know, keep, you just absorb all that hopefully.
Steve Kmetko:
Ernie?
Barry Livingston:
Yes, dad.
Steve Kmetko:
Thank you, Toe Say. Do you still get residuals from my three sons as long ago as it was?
Barry Livingston:
No, no. They paid us, you know, for the actual work that we did. And then in syndication, it was all accounted for in the contract, which that was nice, you know, and nobody dreamed that there was going to be anything known as cable. It was like HBO back in then. It was a home box office, you know, you had to sign up. And that was one of the first networks, cable networks. But it, it aired there, and then it went on to Met TV and Nick at night and all those. I think maybe at that point I was still getting a little bit of, they, they had to go back and rewrite the master contract to account for these new distribution systems. And so, a pittance, though, just an absolute pittance of what, what we were getting per episode before it was something like 1% split among all the cast members. And at that time, I think Viacom owned my three sons and was licensed licensing it to their subsidiaries for, you know, 39 cents. Because why, you know, they're not going to charge themselves $5 million. It'll be nothing. Because they owned it and they're leasing it to somebody else that they own or know. So, we got zero pennies. Nothing, nothing to this day. It's okay. No big deal.
Steve Kmetko:
So, you have a wife. And children.
Barry Livingston:
Two Kids. Yeah.
Steve Kmetko:
Do you like the way life has unfolded for you?
Barry Livingston:
Sure, yeah. I mean, what else? You know, I mean, I've been dealt a pretty good hand. I mean, I still work. I work pretty consistently you know, a lot of ups and downs, but at the heart of it is relationship with my wife. We met in 80, so, what's that? 25, 45 years married for. 43 of them. Kids are great. You know, I just was looking in Rolling Stone and I Magazine, which doesn't have the prestige, but I, I've was in two of the top two of the top movies of the last this, this new century, whatever they call it, the 21st century, I guess Zodiac and Social Network. And I thought, well, that's, you know, for an ex-child actor, not too shabby to be too in two of, out of the 20 greatest films of this century.
Steve Kmetko:
I've seen both of them.
Barry Livingston:
Yeah. And so, you know, I've been lucky to get some real nice breaks with some good movies, big movies, working with Clint Eastwood, Jersey Boys War Dogs with Joni Hill and, anyway, so yeah. I'm here. I'm still here, as it says.
Steve Kmetko:
Yes. Thank you. Is there a memory from filming that fans at home might not have been aware of, but that you remember very clearly?
Barry Livingston:
Well, there, I mean, if, you know, there was a lot of episodes. I think it was over 300 that I was in, maybe 298 or something like that. I mean, think, you know, and they all blend into one big episode, really. There was an occasional working with a lion, you know, some goofy storyline that a lion got loose from the circus and just conveniently winds up into the Douglas household. So as a kid, you know, suddenly you're working with a lion off a chain, you know, 10 feet away from you. That was an interesting day at the office. Tho those were fun. And that, I guess the funny story there is the lion who the trainer had ca cage or something that when he wasn't working or chained to something in the back, got loose on, on off his chain.
And so he was wandering around the sound stage all by. They went back, they went, where's the line? He's gone. And so now everyone's in a panic. Because You're going, you got a man eaten beast wandering around this cavernous sound stage over at Desi Lou, which is paramount, gigantic old sound stage. Many, many, many dark places were a lion to like hide out. So, they got everybody all together. They put the kids, Stan and I locked us in our dressing room. The guy who didn't know what was happening was Martz. He didn't, he was arriving at work, didn't realize, because there were no cell phones or anything to contact a person back then. So, he comes in from the bright light of outside, you come into a sound stage, it's pitch black. Usually, your eyes take a minute to adjust. And as he's walking to his dressing room, of course the lion is, that's where the line the lion was, was perched very close to his dressing room. And of course, you know, I'm sure he let out a pretty good string of, of obscenities. But he ran. And the lion, you know, was drugged up. They had him goofy, you know, whatever. And he chased him though. But he, when he did have a phone in his dressing room, and he said, I think I found, you know, you guys are looking for your lion. Because I think I know exactly where he is. He's outside, you know, my door here. So that's actually how they found him.
Steve Kmetko:
A misstep here, or there could have been my two sons.
Barry Livingston:
Or yes, or we needed another Uncle Charlie. Because he was pretty, you know, those, they predator lie like that. Just the instincts kicked in and he outran the lion. So there, there you go.
Steve Kmetko:
Do you ever watch the show?
Barry Livingston:
No.
Steve Kmetko:
Never.
Barry Livingston:
No, not really. I mean, I'm not--
Steve Kmetko:
I was there. Why should I watch it?
Barry Livingston:
I wouldn't avoid it. If it came on, I would watch it. I make no effort to like search it out or, you know, if it's, again, if it's there, I'll, yeah, sure, I'll sit and watch it. But I hear about it and I hear that, you know, it's airing on a lot of the channels that, you know, and it's never really gone away. I mean, it's been around since 60 to 72 was the original run was in syndication for probably seven or 8, 9, 10 years, whatever that was. Then along came cable and cable TV picked it up Nick at night. You know what was their other one that they had? Anyway, then TV Land, and then it's gone on to me, TV and all these other networks have, have, have continually streamed. So, it's really almost never been off the air and whatever it's been 50, 60 years.
Steve Kmetko:
You must take a certain amount of pride from that.
Barry Livingston:
I don't think about it. I mean, it's, yes, obviously, it's an achievement that I have very little to do with other than I was part of it and in it. But, you know, it's longevity is due to the caliber of writing and directing and the actors MacMurray. It transcended generations in that it was just entertainment. You know, what the demise of my three sons and shows, kind of like that Donna Reed leave it to Beaver was all in the family when, when the turn came, when Norman Lear started making shows more, you know, real you know, talking about real problems where we never dealt with cancer. We never dealt with death. We never dealt with anything, you know, integration, all those issues. Abortion. So suddenly became like, whoa, you know, my three sons are now this dinosaur walking in a land of, you know, new worlds.
The one guy actually did a Will and Grace episode with, with Michael Douglas. And I'd worked with Michael actually on streets of San Francisco after my three sons. But I read in the trades. He was trying to reboot the show. And, but, and nobody consulted me on that. I just, you know, heard about it. And I thought, well, I don't know if it's coming back or where it is, but I thought, oh, great. Michael's going to be on this. I can actually ask him what's happened? Is it going to happen or not? And he said, well, yeah, the problem with it, he was going to play the Steve Douglas part. He said they couldn't get a script that he thought retained the charm and folksy character of the old show, which was, you know, the hallmark of that show. And introduced real problems that kids are facing today, you know, drugs and war and things like that. And he just said, we just couldn't kind of bring those worlds together to update it in a realistic way. So yeah, that never, never happened.
Steve Kmetko:
I can understand that. it's kind of fun to know that Michael Douglas was home watching you.
Barry Livingston:
I'm always shocked when I run into people. I met well, yeah, it works out well in a lot of ways. I did a little film called Dickie Roberts former Child Star. And it was just a cameo at the end. And you know, and Adam Sandler produced it, it was really David Spade's movie, but he was part of the Adam Sandler universe. So, one day I was actually, when I was doing The Guardian over at Sony Emelia was, was directing. And at lunchtime, I thought, well, I'll go over, I've never met Adam Sandler. I'll go over to his office and, and I'll say hello, you know, just to see how it goes. Mainly Because I'm going, maybe I can hit him up for a job. And I go in it's lunchtime. Nobody's, he was in actually Judy Garland's old dressing room that those are his offices over at Sony, which was MGM, nobody there. I walk out and here comes Adam Fi speeding up in his golf cart, covered in sweat, just played basketball with the guys. And I thought, well, okay, here we go. Let's see how this works out. Adam, hey man, you know Barry Livingston? Oh, oh yeah. Well, Hi. I said, thanks for putting me in Dick Robins. I love being one of your movies. Oh, sure, sure. I'll put you one of my movies. Yeah, I'll put you one of my movies. Yeah. Oh, we used to around our whole family. We watch that every Thursday night. Oh, man. Oh, of course.
So, you know, lo and behold, I mean, I would get every time he'd be doing a movie for the next 2, 3, 4 years, you know the longest yard, blah, blah, blah, whatever it was. Yeah. I'd go in and audition. It wasn't coming from my agents, it was coming from Adam. Finally, you don't Mess with the Zhan. Came around, got the call to come in and read. You know, I did enough, did well enough in the first reading, I got a call back to say, they'd like you to come to a table read at Sony. You don't have the part, but, but you know, Adam and the group wants you to come and read with them. But anyway, I feel the tap of my shoulder and to turn around this, Adam goes, see, see, I told you I'd get you something good. I told you I'd get you something good.
And I was like, oh, man, got to be kidding me. You're going to break. Make me cry. Because like, who, who in Hollywood even remembers, you know, people make promises all the time like that. So I don't know how I got on that story, but nonetheless, you know, that the charm of my three sons is that it's transcended all these years. All these people still love it. Met Quent, Quentin Tarantino not too long ago. And similar, you know, he just, he just was lost his mind that, you know, I was in my three sons and now he's standing with Ernie. So yeah, it's a good thing.
Steve Kmetko:
Well, I think you were a special part of many people's childhoods.
Barry Livingston:
Yeah. And I think the character of Ernie was a little bit of a groundbreaking character in that he wasn't, it was more of an everyday average. Not terribly blue-eyed, blonde haired, Aryan, beautiful little boy. Like every, the prototype for most television shows of that era, like my brother Stan was probably a perfect example of that. He had buck teeth, I had braces, I had glasses, I had a weird haircut. You know, and so all those things made him a little more relatable maybe. And I'd say, yeah, he is like a prototype nerd. And, you know, that's served me well over the years.
Steve Kmetko:
Plus, when your character was introduced, he was adopted.
Barry Livingston:
He was adopted. Yeah.
Steve Kmetko:
And that elicits a certain amount of sympathy. I don't--
Barry Livingston:
Empathy sympathy. Sure.
Steve Kmetko:
Empathy, sympathy. Yeah.
Barry Livingston:
Yeah. No, that was probably one of the, you know, a real nod again to what Michael Douglas was talking about. Let's do something other than Ernie can't find a skateboard episode. You know, let's do something about the real world. A child who's needs to be adopted is, you know, they didn't tell me this when I got cast in the, in the original episodes that I was in, that I was a foster child. That became you the next year. When Tim Cons and I was leaving, they needed a new son. They said, oh, by the way, Ernie's going to be adopted, and he's got foster parents that are leaving the country. So, you know, the Douglas family is going to adopt him. And so, you know, again, those six episodes that if you missed that little transitional period, you'd wonder how I came onto the show. But that was, that was it.
Steve Kmetko:
Well, I was raised in the home of a Baptist minister, and so that was one of the shows we were allowed to watch on a regular basis.
Barry Livingston:
Yeah.
Steve Kmetko:
Because it had those kinds of values.
Barry Livingston:
Yes, yes.
Steve Kmetko:
Did you avoid-- how did you avoid the Child Star curse? Or did you ever experience it?
Barry Livingston
Yeah. It comes and goes. I mean, you know, after the show, I mean, my parents were, like I said, they were showbiz savvy. They weren't people connected in any way, but they were well aware of some of the kids that have had struggle. Jackie Coogan, you know, Mickey Rooney did pretty well, but still, there was a lot of child actors that they knew had problems. So, they were always to a fault warning me about, you know, the hard times to come after the show was over. And I think they prepared me well. And, but, you know, the bottom line was they said, if you're really going to do this, you got to get really good at it. You can't just rely on the charm and your looks. You got to really study and really become an actor. So, you know, I went, okay, you know, I gave it a thought about it, and I thought, well, I'm getting indications. And people were saying, you know, you've got talent. You should try to do it, but you need to develop it. And so, you know, in LA, I studied with the Martin Landau and Jack Garfein and went to New York, worked on Broadway and off Broadway and did the things that I think other guys my age were attempting to do, to develop their craft. And you know, so those helped.
Steve Kmetko
Martin Landau of Oscar winning fame.
Barry Livingston
Marty, yeah. And Marty was kind of in a downturn of his career. You know, he did –
Steve Kmetko
After Mission Impossible.
Barry Livingston
After Mission Impossible. And he was doing all the guest spots, but it was prior to him winning an Oscar for Tucker. And what was the great Woody Allen movie Dracula.
Steve Kmetko
Bella Lago. He played Bella Lago. Did he eat one for that?
Barry Livingston
I think he won for Tucker, I think. And the –
Steve Kmetko
He was nominated several years in a row there. Cries and whispers or lies.
Barry Livingston
Yes. What was the one with Woody guys? I can't think of that one. But it was a very, very serious thing. And I can never remember the name of that. Anyway, just prior to his resurge in his career, and he was, yeah, I'm still working, you know, till like murder at the amusement park with Mike Connors, you know, that kind of stuff.
Steve Kmetko
He was the nicest guy, though. He was a great interview too.
Barry Livingston
Oh, he loved to talk.
Steve Kmetko
Oh, he loves good. Very good.
Barry Livingston
He loved to talk.
Steve Kmetko
I kidded him. I'll tell this story now. The night he won the Oscars; I was there covering it for E or CBS or whomever. And I had been in the bathroom men's room, which was a beehive of activity, and he went to use the urinal, and he never put his Oscar down. Not even to wash his hands. And so, I quizzed him about that. And he said, hey, it took me so long to win this. I'm not about to put it down. So, he was a nice guy, great sense of humor.
Barry Livingston
Oh, he is. Great sense of humor. A funny guy, you know, in acting class, you kind of want to get to the point, and Marty would love to diverge into great stories about people that he worked with and knew, but sometimes he got that's a little verbose.
Steve Kmetko
Not only that after I interviewed him, you know, I have a job, he has a job, blah, blah. He would send me notes, Christmas cards.
Barry Livingston
Really?
Steve Kmetko
He always, yeah. Always remembered me. It was just such a decent guy.
Barry Livingston
Yeah. Yeah. I think, I don't know what his roots were before his stardom, but I always got the feeling he was well grounded. And Barbara Bain, his wife. They were kind of another Hollywood couple. But yeah, he got it. He just got it. He understood fame, he understood craft, you know.
Steve Kmetko
He understood Alfred Hitchcock and North by Northwest.
Barry Livingston
He was a terrifically talented human being and, you know. Yeah.
Steve Kmetko
Yeah. And we'll be right back. If you'd like to be more involved with us at Still Here Hollywood, you definitely can just visit Patreon.com/StillHereHollywood. You can support us for as little as $3 a month. You can get our episodes a day before they post anywhere else. You can see what guests will be coming up and submit questions for them. You can even tell us what stars you want us to have on as guests. You'll see what goes on before and after the episode. Plus, exclusive behind the scenes info picks video and more. Again, that's Patreon.com/StillHereHollywood. What's the most unexpected thing a fan has ever said to you?
Barry Livingston
I don't know. You know, who'd you sleep with last night? I don't know.
Steve Kmetko
Dig deep.
Barry Livingston
I don't know if there's, you know probably at autograph shows, people are always, you know, did you and Jodie ever date? Those kind of silly questions like that.
Steve Kmetko
I forgot about Jodie.
Barry Livingston
Yeah. I was like, no, no, that wasn't that. No, that never happened. Jodie Foster. No, that never happened either. No. Yeah, I'm at a loss.
Steve Kmetko
Okay. Were you typecast after My Three Sons?
Barry Livingston
You, well, that's part of the thing. No, I was very lucky in that most of the things, very soon after, the very first thing I did after that was, you're a good man, Charlie Brown for Home of Hall of Fame. So, I had to sing and dance. I had to play Linus. That was a big departure from, but, you know, Linus and Ernie, I can see kind of a –
Steve Kmetko
A little tug casting.
Barry Livingston
Similarity there. But then I did streets of San Francisco, which was a runaway iron sides where I was kind of a stalking stalker, room 22. I was a communist sympathizer on campus. You know, I was playing a lot of heavies, you know, teenage heavies, not in the real world. And I'd say the one time, a time in my mind, maybe before that, and I did a lot of TV movies. I did another series for CBS called Sons and Daughter Too, which was set in the 50s, but it was a very dramatic oriented show. But when I did Doogie Howser and I played a doctor, and I had a recurring role on it, Dr. Rickard, and I thought, I'm finally the guy, you know, lost my hair. And I looked older, I looked like a doctor, and Doogie had all the silly, stupid questions. And I was the guy who had the answers finally. You know, I wasn't that goofy kid on campus. That's the, you know, sort of that knows nothing. And so, I kind of saw that as a turning point, maybe as really breaking out of the child actor type cast. Yeah. Yeah.
Steve Kmetko
Life is good.
Barry Livingston
Yeah. I mean, I can't complain.
Steve Kmetko
Tell me about your music.
Barry Livingston
Well, I've always played, I mean, I started playing, you know piano and guitar when you know, the Beatles kind of got everybody into music more. So, I was always a music fan. We went, I was doing the Ozzie and Harriet Show, Rick Nelson, you know, was huge. And I was well aware of how huge Rick was. And it was, you know, an honor and a privilege to be there for the sock hops that Ozzie would always, it had nothing to do with usually the episode of the story. But if Rick had a record coming out Travelin' Man, or Hello Mary Lou, it would always be a sock hop that he would write to tag the show with. And Rick would sing that song, and then two days later, the song would come out. But 30, 40 million people had been exposed to it on the show. And so, my music, you know, I mean, I like to write, I love kind of dabbling writing songs and it's just a hobby. But, you know, I've never really pursued it professionally other than just for my own enjoyment.
Steve Kmetko
Now, that was something they did back then was having talent that they could cross promote.
Barry Livingston
Well, I think Ozzie was one of the first guys that, whether he consciously was understood, you know –
Steve Kmetko
Well, he was a big band leader for a while.
Barry Livingston
He was, yeah. He and her, yeah, Harriet, his wife, they were. They had a band. And, but I think he, you know, he clearly knew the effect of Rick premiering a song on his show would be helpful to the series, and also helpful to promote Rick's record. Because instantly, 20, 30 million people heard it. And then once it gets released to the, you know, all the radio stations, you know, it became a huge hit. So yeah.
Steve Kmetko
Like Shelley Fabares with Johnny Angel or the Donna Reed Show.
Barry Livingston
Yeah. Yeah. Mercifully, I was spared, my brother did you know, they were taking the kids from those shows. My dad was Paul Petersen, and you know, Sam did, you know, they wrangled him into doing something called Hairspray and Pen Pal. And, you know, again, trying to, you know, get on board with that TV kid who he was singing a song and then, you know, regular song that they could play on the radio. I don't think it went anywhere, but no, I never they never got me for to do that.
Steve Kmetko
Working with David Fincher, is notoriously intense.
Barry Livingston
Yes, it is.
Steve Kmetko
Was it for you?
Barry Livingston
Yeah, I mean, not for me. I mean, I've done four projects. I can't say I'm not going to even go there, but I've done four projects social network Zodiac, and he loves –
Steve Kmetko
Oh, that's right. That was adventure.
Barry Livingston
And a couple commercials, oddly enough that he was very big in commercials direct and videos, music, Madonna's, I think Material Girl, he directed. So yeah, you know, he likes to do things over and over and over, like 20, 30 times takes. You know, he probably used the second take or third, but nonetheless, you know, I mean, I know Robert Downey Jr. was losing his mind because he just felt like, I got nothing left to give and I'm on my 29th take, what do you want from me? And he'll say one more, you know, And I've heard him said, or it said that he likes to squeeze the acting out of the actor. That once you've done it that many times, you're just on automatic pilot and somehow some other color kind of comes through. And but he got an Oscar nomination from Zodiac. And so, you either, I didn't mind it, I don't mind doing it 50 times if he wants to do it. Because, you know, I'm there to work. I mean, and if that's his process you know, I'm all for it. And no problem whatsoever.
Steve Kmetko
But don't you find you go home at the end of the day, a little more tired?
Barry Livingston
Well, you know, when you're in a scene, like some of the scenes in Zodiac were like, I was playing one of the guys at the newspaper, and so was Downey and Jake Gyllenhaal. They were reporters. And we'd have a scene where 6 or 7, 8 actors could be in the scene, be a three- or four-page scene. So, you're doing the master 29 times, you're doing your closeup 29 times, you're doing a two shot 29 times, and then you're doing off stage dialogue for all the other actors. 29 times. That's an awful lot of time that you're doing a scene. You can't quibble with the results. You know, the end result is usually really pretty good. It's exhausting to some people. I mean, my, you know, I didn't have the cut of load to carry in any of either of those movies that the Stars did. So, I can't say, you know, gee, that was that exhausting. But for them I could understand.
Steve Kmetko
It sounds like early on, had you been given the choice of what career you would take, it sounds to me like the career you have is pretty close to what you would've liked to be doing.
Barry Livingston
I think so, yeah. I mean, I'm always up for you know, I would love to have that career. Ed Asner had, you know, somebody goes into their 80s and their 90s and they're still finding a niche that they can do, you know, whether it's the grandpa role or the judge or, you know, something like that. The CEO of the law firm, you know, that you go through those stages in your career and your life and, you know, yeah, I hope I can keep it going for another 5, 10, 20 years. We'll see.
Steve Kmetko
That's a long time. 5, 10, 20 years.
Barry Livingston
Yes. Yes. I hope so.
Steve Kmetko
You've been acting over 6 decades.
Barry Livingston
Yes, I have.
Steve Kmetko
That would take you to 7 or 8 decades.
Barry Livingston
It would, I don't know who holds. Probably Mickey Rooney holds the record, I would think. Because he started, you know, probably in his late, early teens. And he was still doing it, you know.
Steve Kmetko
I know there's video exists of him playing Puck in a very early production of –
Barry Livingston
Midsummer Night's Dream. Yeah.
Steve Kmetko
Yeah. And he looks like a kid. He looks like a baby.
Barry Livingston
Yeah. Yeah.
Steve Kmetko
I think he was wearing a diaper.
Barry Livingston
I did one of, I did a Dick Powell theater across the street at CBS and Mickey. It was called Somebody's Waiting, and Mickey was the star of it. And the director was not Arthur Penn, but it was somebody of that caliber was doing television at that time. And yeah, it was, you know, that was post his big, big, you know, era where he was the top star in America. He and Judy Garland for 5, 10 years in the 30s. But it was you know, I mean, that's a good guy to kind of look at and go, he had a great career. I would love to have that career.
Steve Kmetko
How tall are you?
Barry Livingston
5.5.
Steve Kmetko
5.5. Just curious.
Barry Livingston
And shrinking.
Steve Kmetko
Never. Me too. It's such a shock the first time you go to the doctor and they say, huh, and your weight is going in the opposite direction.
Barry Livingston
Yeah. This is going up. The other's going down.
Steve Kmetko
You've also appeared in Mad Men, the X Files and Bosch.
Barry Livingston
The recurring role in Bosch. Yes. The Bosch legacy. And you, no, I don't think I did you most recently the Connors, Mrs. Davis lessons in chemistry. A little movie called Isabelle's Garden. I just did a film with Michael Douglas, again called Looking Through Water, that I think it's going to be coming out pretty soon. So yeah, you know, I mean the COVID and everything kind of shut everything down for a bit, but things to be picking up a little.
Steve Kmetko
How'd you get through the strike?
Barry Livingston
I did a couple things during the strike. I did an episode of The Rookie and, you know, weird, really weird times that, you know, when you're on set, they put you in a little tent, like a little tiny little personal tent and they zip it up and you sit there because they don't want to shut production down. You sitting with a mask on, you know, sweat like a pig. Because there's no air in this thing going, you know. And you'd go out to the scene wearing your mask. They had, somebody was a handler, you know, they'd come up just before they were about to do the take and go, okay, take your mask off, give it to this person. Then you do your scene, cut. Okay. Put your mask on. You know, back to doing that, it was like, wow, this is –
Steve Kmetko
And they probably had somebody there monitoring that. Everybody follows the rules.
Barry Livingston
Ah. Or hopefully you don't get the wrong mask. But yeah.
Steve Kmetko
Did you ever wish My Three Sons had a final episode? Per se, you know a sign off, goodbye, farewell –
Barry Livingston
Yeah. I mean, it would've been nice. I mean, life goes on. I don't know what, how they could have concluded it, you know. I mean, there was no, Ernie finally moves out, I don't know Ernie on welfare. I don't know where you go with that. But at the end, really the last season, I think Don Grady had pretty much left the show. Stan had pretty much left the show. At home, it was me, Fred, Bill Demarest, Beverly Garland, Dawn Lynn, and the dog.
Steve Kmetko
And Dodie.
Barry Livingston
Yeah, Dawn Lynn was Dodie. Oh, yes. So that was the end of the way it went out. We did a really goofy, Dick Clark put together a, My Three Sons Partridge Family Thanksgiving reunion show, and, you know, total money gig. I mean, you know, whatever. But yeah, made no sense at all. Whatever.
Steve Kmetko
We will be back in a moment. So which role of yours do you think is the most underrated?
Barry Livingston
Hmm. Well, I love doing this little movie called Notorious Nick and I had a really starring great role in, it came out a few years ago, I think 2022, 21. But he was a real-life story about a guy who was born with a congenital defect. And he was missing the forearm on his right side, I guess it was. And he true story. Nick Newell is his name, and he became a world champion, MMA fighter. I played his wrestling coach in the movie in when he was in high school. And of course, he, you know, wanted to pursue mixed martial arts, which is a brutally violent sport. But everyone's going, how do you do that with one arm? You know, you're going to get your whipped here. And so, but he had this vision, his dream, and he came back to me because nobody else wanted to handle him or train him. And I became his coach and trainer in MMA and the guy went on to win a world championship. It was an amazing story. It's like a rocky kind of story. And I find it at Amazon Prime, if you're interested. But yeah, I mean that I love that. I love that part. I love that movie.
Steve Kmetko
What advice would you give people today who were your age when you got in the business? Well, that was pretty young.
Barry Livingston
You know, you got to study and you got to be patient and you got to be persistent and you got to have thick skin. Because there's going to be an awful lot of rejection. And again, in my life I've been very blessed with a wife who has been extremely tolerant, extremely patient. I'll go down rabbit holes that, you know, that she'll pull me out of all the time dejected thinking it's over. And then something wonderful seems to come out of nowhere. And I try not to go there as much, but it's, you know, it's, I'm only human and I'm going, this is it. Maybe that's it. I'm done. You know, nobody calls and gives you a gold watch or even a, you know, tin watch. They, you just, the phone stops ringing. And when it doesn't ring, you know, for months on end, you go, I don't know. Maybe that's it, you know. But no, you know, it's hard. It's hard to keep hopeful.
Steve Kmetko
Do you think you'll know when to let go, or?
Barry Livingston
Well, that's a good question. I mean, yeah, I mean, I hope I will know when personally I'll make that choice to go. It's time to let go. You know, a lot of that depends on your mental acuity. If you can show up and not, you know, drooling or blowing your lines and every take, you know, at that point it becomes pretty obvious that you shouldn't be doing this anymore. So far that hasn't happened.
Steve Kmetko
And your book, “The Importance of Being Ernie” you're brutally honest. Was there any story you hesitated to tell?
Barry Livingston
No, I mean, you know again, I had just finished Social Network, so I thought it was, oh, here's like, kind of come back up to a nice, real, very highly acclaimed Oscar winning movie through, you know, I had up and downs and some nice gigs throughout the years, but I thought, well, this is a great time to maybe kind of look back. Yeah, I mean, I don't think so. I mean, you know, there were eras that were, I was indulging in too much all kinds of things, let's say. But that was in the 70s, not making any excuses, no endorsement. Don't do it if you're thinking about doing it. But that was the era of Hollywood. And you know, I don't think, it did much to damage my brain or my reputation, because frankly, it was people doing a heck of a lot more things that I was doing. So, I would, you know, I mean, that's just an era. And you go through eras in life and you, hopefully you're not your worst enemy. And, you know, hopefully you learn something from your mistakes and use it , you know, from sometimes it was great to have that as a background for a character that you would do. So, I don't regret it at all.
Steve Kmetko
I'm still waiting to learn from my mistakes.
Barry Livingston
Well, keep at it.
Steve Kmetko
Is there a role you dream, still dream of playing?
Barry Livingston
Not really. I had a really dream gig in this last year played in Cyrano Deak, which is one of my favorite plays at the Pasadena play. I wasn't Cyrano, but I had a really couple of really nice roles in it. So, to be on that legendary stage and that particular play was a great, great, again, it was a dream job come true. So, maybe more theater work. I'd love to do something maybe, you know, American Buffalo or Glengarry Glen Ross, or some of these great classic plays, but maybe they're done to death. So, I don't know.
Steve Kmetko
You seem to have a really good handle on not letting things get out of hand.
Barry Livingston
Yeah, well, that's, again, I got a wife that's not afraid to kick me in the butt.
Steve Kmetko
She gets all the credit.
Barry Livingston
She should, and she deserves every bit of it too. And, you know, and two kids that are great. And again, a ton of gratitude for people that still feel I have something to offer and professionally. And I still try to do my part to make things happen and develop relationships. And, you know, I'm going to go in next week for an in-person audition for a network show, but mainly Because I went, you know what, everyone does self-tape auditions these days, and they have a very limited window now that you can come in and ask for an in. But I thought, I want to go in not just to read and get the bra, which I hope I get, but to meet those new casting people in person, because they got to feel your energy. They all, they see on, you know, a little screen and they can see your audition and with 50 other people.
But it's really important to get in the room with somebody. And these are going to be, you know, it's a big, big casting company, so it'll probably be greeting with the associate casting person who in 5, 10 years from now, we'll be a casting director. But if they don't know who you are, in some ways you don't have, you really have an opportunity even in a room to show that. But if you do, you know, it's a smart thing to do. So, you know, those are the things that I think are important to make those contacts and not let them go.
Steve Kmetko
It's still about networking in this city.
Barry Livingston
Absolutely. Oh, absolutely. You know, yeah. I mean, I've gotten, the role in Bosch came about because I did Argo the movie and like sitting next to me, pre-Bosch was Titus Welliver, and he seemed to be a huge fan of My Three Sons. Everywhere I went, Titus was like following me around and going, you know, I'd get on a golf cart to go have lunch, and he go, where you going? He goes, oh yeah, come on. And I remember I did an episode of Two and a Half Men, and I saw the producers and I said, oh, stop, stop. I want to say hello to these guys. Titus hops off with me. I go, okay, come on, let's go. I would go, well, that's cool. But anyway, fast forward a few years later, and I saw this role that was being cast in Bosch, and he was the star of it. And I said, hey man, I'm, you know, I've done medical examiners before, you know, you want to put my name? Oh, yeah, yeah, of course.
Sure. So, you know, he reached out to casting and I knew the casting director. And, but again, he got back to me, he said, you hear from them yet, most people don't do that. They'll go, yeah, yeah, I'm on it. But he got back to me, he said, do you hear from him? And I said, no, not yet. But you know, he said, you will. And sure enough, I heard from the casting people, and that kind of laid the groundwork for a nice recurring role in that. So, it's personal, you know.
Steve Kmetko
One last question. How often do you see Stanley?
Barry Livingston
Not often enough. He's moved out to the Inland Empire.
Steve Kmetko
Ooh. Palm Springs, San Bernardino –
Barry Livingston
Outside Beaumont, which is just outside.
Steve Kmetko (
Oh, yeah. Beaumont banning.
Barry Livingston
Morongo. So, yeah. You know, he's just, you know, geographically we're a little bit further apart. He used to live in Laurel Canyon forever and bought my parents' house that we grew up in Laurel Canyon. And so, he sold that maybe 7 or 8 years ago. So yeah, you know, I mean, love my brother and I love the time that we can be together. Probably see him a little few week from now. So, yeah. You know, it's always good.
Steve Kmetko
Thanks.
Barry Livingston
Thank you, man.
Steve Kmetko
I appreciate it. I had a good time.
Barry Livingston
Oh, I hope so. I had a good time.
Steve Kmetko
Still Here Hollywood is a production of the Still Here Network, all things technical run by Justin Zangerle. Theme music by Brian Sanyshyn and executive producer is Jim Lichtenstein.